I feel it is a good time to make this post. After seeing yesterday’s game, it’s about time to get the message across.

Over the past few weeks, I’ve been on Capfriendly making Armchair trades in which I looked at dealing Marner to other teams. I would like to explain why I have been so adamant in moving him: I think he is the one that is holding the team back.

I honestly do not believe that Marner's teammates & coaches like him in general. They may not even respect him. Before the contract negotiation, he was being praised throughout the organization but now that is all gone. By holding out & demanding the highest salary possible, he has shown that he is selfish, cancerous and not in it for the team.

If Toronto is to underwhelm in the playoffs again, I think the player in question should be Marner. I don't know how many performances I saw from him this season in which the effort just wasn't there. He played with no intensity & seemed uninspired. He always lost the puck carelessly, he never went to the dirty areas to retrieve pucks and too many times he was just floating around. There's no denying he's got immense talent, but when the team is looking for a spark, they turn to their top players to set an example. If this is what they see, no wonder they are getting poor results. I think a lot of the Leafs' failures this season falls on the shoulder of Mitch Marner.

Marner is my favourite player & I want to see him succeed, but I’ve had enough of this nonsense. I’m tired of defending him & hearing his excuse for his poor performances. I feel the ship has already sunk for him. Honestly, he just doesn’t have the mentality or attitude to succeed in the NHL. A change of scenery may be the best option at this point.

I have been long contemplating this trade below:

Mitch Marner To Pittsburgh For Patric Hornqvist, Sam Lafferty, Chad Ruhwedel & Jack Johnson

I feel it can benefit both teams.

The Leafs add the defencemen to fill out their roster holes, but more importantly, they add leadership & heart which is what they desperately need right now. Hornqvist is a guy who’ll work his arse off every shift, he battles for pucks, takes hits & drives to the net. He brings the exact oopposite of what Marner offers. Lafferty plays much the same way, with more speed but is less proven.

The Penguins get a top line RW who can put up elite production plus is one of the most elusive players with the puck on his stick, however, is basically a reclamation project at this point. Their coaching staff is usually good with young players & they’ve dealt with players in a similar situation (ie Kessel).

Getting rid of Marner & his toxic presence feels like the first & most crucial step into restoring a winning mentality within the Leafs organization. While I understand his theoretical trade value may be higher, based on the current situation I can’t see teams willing to give up more than this.

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Please give my post description a read & let me know your thoughts on my take in regards to Mitch Marner. Would you be inclined to trade him?

(Don't quote this post).

bro you need to stop tagging everyone on your posts... but cmon really mitch is elite bro. cant get rid of elite.

In general Marner is a playmaker, which can be both good and bad. He needs to learn to shoot the puck more rather than just pass it. He didnt look good in game 1 but something seemed way off on him. I have never seen marner play like that, 12 sloppy passes. If marner plays like we know he can man how many pp would he draw from columbus doing everything in there power to take that puck from him or stop him from scoring. Hopefully keefe gave him a lecture cause in game 2 him playing like that is not gonna help.

Did you read what I wrote? I never denied he's an elite talent. However, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard, which has been the case for Mitch this season. Sometimes a star player's presence can hurt the team. It took me a long time to write out this piece so I tagged everything to hear their opinions.

I would not go as far as saying that Marner is toxic or so, but he had a poor playoffs last year and I agree with some of the comments regarding his play. I am not a big fan of his 5vs5 play this season.

Also, I would expect them to get a bigger return for him but would also trade him.

He is a very gifted player, I just don't think he is what the Leafs really need. Trade him for a good D and maybe along some other pieces.

Matthews wanted the most he could get, and got it. Same with nylander. If the leafs don’t respect marner for those reasons, why not the other two guys?

Tagging a million people in this kind of thing is such a scummy move. It gets quoted once and all of a sudden notifications are going out like crazy.

Agree I've watched Marner since his London days & he didn't look like himself at all. He was handling the puck like a grenade when his skills are usually among the best in the league. However, for much of this season, he hasn't looked sharp. Seems like he's skating in quick sand. Maybe he's hurt, maybe he's not working hard enough, or maybe the opposition have exposed his weaknesses.

Elite players can put a team on their back in big games and win it for them. Marner rarely does that.

0 points yesterday
Last season playoffs in 7 games - 4 games without a point and only 2 goals scored in the series both in game 7 but 1 game in 7 doesn't mean elite
That is not elite!

Any team acquiring Marner for his cap hit, wants to know they are getting a guy that can literally change the outcome of a game in a big games and Marner so far can't; Kane, Crosby, Ovy, Panarin, McDavid, Matthews....those are elite players that consistently are able to put the team on their back and win big games. Now, Marner has upside for sure and maybe he will be able to carry a team on his back one day, but so far he hasn't shown consistency to do that in big games...that's one of the biggest reasons he MIGHT be hard to trade for that cap hit. The other being, what is Marner like without Matthews or JT?

I don't mind trading Marner but for Jack Johnson? Really? That guy single handedly cost his team the game against Montreal.

If you wanna trade him trade him for Seider or someone useful.

Johnson’s awful man he directly caused a goal in game one and almost led to Drouin’s OT goal.

He’s as bad as Ceci

The above trade is awful value

Marner has played and produced with many centres. Most if the time he's with Tavares not Matthews.

Did you see him in the game against Carolina (not the Zamboni one lol)

He's worse than Ceci.

I mean, he literally held out & squeezed the GM for every last penny which he didn’t deserve. If that’s not being toxic, IDK what is. I agree that he’s gifted, but it’s about how you perform. Right now, he hasn’t proven to 1 GM that he’s worth an elite defenceman in a trade. Especially at that cap hit. It’s not only me who sees him as a negative value asset, fans from other teams agree as you can see the quotes below:

I would trade Marner, but not for that package. I would trade him for big, physical, youngish (Manson would be the oldest) minute munching RHD and then build from there depending on the quality, age and contract of the RHD.

My choices would be Jones, Ekblad, Hamilton, Manson, Pesce, Pulock, Risto and probably a couple more like Severson.

If it was Ekblad or Jones I would probably agree to a 1-for-1 trade (not that I am saying the other team would - I have no idea). If it was Risto I would probably want Risto, a decent prospect and a decent pick or two (ie one first or 2 seconds).

I'd want Dubas fired if he made that trade.

I agree that his intensity and effort needs to improve but we were saying the same thing about nylander last year this time. I think marner is like most young players trying to hard to live up to his contract and not playing what come natural for them. I honestly think if the core does not show significant improvement soon this offseason nylander is the one shopped around. He is skilled but is easier to replace and would wake up the rest of the roster that they need to start living up to their potential or more will go.

I agree that JJ has mostly played poorly over the last 2 seasons & makes big blunders from time to time, but he really isn't anywhere near as bad as you're making him out to be. You've gotta keep in mind that his most common D partners (Letang & Schultz) play a style that doesn't suit JJ's skillset at all. They are too offensive-minded forcing JJ to be the responsible guy. Alongside a shutdown partner who can help him take care of the forecheck & stop the cycle, he can be a very effective 2 way defenceman. Look at his stats from CBJ when he played with Savard:



Even when he got paired in a top 4 role with Marino at the start of the season, he played above average. I am very confident that he'll play well alongside Muzzin who's one of the best defensive D in the league.

There's absolutely zero chance a GM will give up a Seider-caliber D for Marner with the way he's playing.

I agree that JJ has mostly played poorly over the last 2 seasons & makes big blunders from time to time, but he really isn't anywhere near as bad as you're making him out to be. You've gotta keep in mind that his most common D partners (Letang & Schultz) play a style that doesn't suit JJ's skillset at all. They are too offensive-minded forcing JJ to be the responsible guy. Alongside a shutdown partner who can help him take care of the forecheck & stop the cycle, he can be a very effective 2 way defenceman. Look at his stats from CBJ when he played with Savard:



Even when he got paired in a top 4 role with Marino at the start of the season, he played above average. I am very confident that he'll play well alongside Muzzin who's one of the best defensive D in the league.

There's absolutely zero chance a GM will give up a Seider-caliber D for Marner with the way he's playing.

I have wanted Marner off the team since the contract negotiations. That has probably poisoned a lot of relationships. He is over-paid by a million or two, but there are plenty of over-paid players in the NHL, and not many of those over-paid players have had such a high percentage of their contract already paid out.

However, I don't believe that Marner is a negative value asset, or anything even close to that. Fans say such things because that is what fans do. GMs see him as a potential game breaker, with mountains of potential and perhaps just not currently being put in the best position to show off his talents. Owners see him as a player who can put butts in seats and as someone who has a cap hit of 11M, but only costs 7M a year for the remainder of his contract. The latter would potentially be very appealing to teams like Florida, Carolina, Anaheim and Buffalo among others.

Regardless, I don't think that the team can win in its current configuration (I have felt this even before Marner signed) and at least one of their big-4 forwards has to go if this team wants to make the next step. Tavares has a NMC. Marner is the first up for me. The team obviously knows more about what goes on in the locker room.

I've watched him in all the big games (playoffs) and more often then not, he's been far from elite. For that kind of cap hit, an acquiring team needs to know they are getting a player that single handedly will carry a team on his back in big games and win it for them. Crosby, Panarin, Kane, Ovy, McDavid, Matthews all are elite players that show they are able to do this in big games when needed, it is rare when Marner has shown this in a big game. For $11M cap hit, he can't be consistently blanking on the score sheet in the playoffs. I think that will change as he gets better, but teams would have to bet big on it and know that he will need a great center next to him.

Agree with everything you are saying besides him being a game breaker...he doesn't show that enough especially in big games but he will grow as a player. He doesn't have negative value, but Leafs will need to retain $1M to $2M on that cap hit if they expect a great package back. Teams, doesn't matter who besides Ottawa, can't take on that cap hit in today's flat cap environment without knowing they are getting a elite guy that will get them to the playoffs and be able to carry the team on his back into the playoffs...Marner hasn't shown that he can lead a team into the playoffs and win games with a C on or A on his chest and for $11M, he should.

That's what it would take to move him. A lot of Leafs fans would say that's not enough.

No chance you get a return of Jones/Hamilton/Pesce/Ekblad for Marner, that’s way too much even he was making 9 Million a year. The others are a possibility but given the way he’s performed this season, it seems be a pipe dream as well. The GMs around the league are aware of his nonsensical play, they’ll stay far away. Basically Marner is like a reclamation project at this point so most likely Toronto will have to add a sweetener or take salary back.

Just because that’s what the fans think doesn’t make it accurate. The GMs around the league are aware of his nonsensical play, they’ll stay far away. Basically Marner is like a reclamation project at this point so most likely Toronto will have to add a sweetener or take salary back.