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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary

Jul. 25, 2022 at 3:48 p.m.
#701
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Quoting: Alfie11
PLD is the only one of the four that expressed interest in going to play for Montreal, and he’s the one that Habs fans don’t want. The rest is just delusional. One of the greatest front offices ever seen seems like a stretch. Getting rid of the crew that drafted a convicted criminal who asked not to be drafted is below bare minimum.


1. Those who don't want PLD are a minority, people in general just don't want to overpay because the team is not there yet.

2. Letang & Huberdeau said it interviews a few times

3. It's not just "getting rid of Bergevin's regime" - they replaced it with world-class hockey heads in Gorton, Bobrov, Nicholas, and filled the rest with some big names: Lecavalier, MP Poulin, St-Louis. If you don't see the difference it makes for players compared to the previous front office, I don't know what to tell you.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 3:51 p.m.
#702
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Quoting: Db1899
He would be a great fit with the isles, he’s exactly what they need

I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a team that couldn’t use a 24yo 6’4” middle-six winger that drives play well at both ends of the ice lol
Jul. 25, 2022 at 3:58 p.m.
#703
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Quoting: SevenLeg
1. Those who don't want PLD are a minority, people in general just don't want to overpay because the team is not there yet.

2. Letang & Huberdeau said it interviews a few times

3. It's not just "getting rid of Bergevin's regime" - they replaced it with world-class hockey heads in Gorton, Bobrov, Nicholas, and filled the rest with some big names: Lecavalier, MP Poulin, St-Louis. If you don't see the difference it makes for players compared to the previous front office, I don't know what to tell you.

Every front office is great during a rebuild. And being good at hockey does not make you good at anything else. There’s hope for a better future, but not a guarantee. Gorton and Bobrov were fine hires, but I wouldn’t call Gorton an elite GM, and he’s not even the GM. And yeah Letang really wanted to play in Montreal, which is why he signed for longer than the rest of his career to stay in Pittsburgh lol. If the Montreal media asks if he’d play in Montreal, what is he supposed to say? Huberdeau just said he’d be open to signing long term in Calgary too, and he was open to signing in Florida prior to the trade, so that’s 3 teams before the market opens right there. You don’t see me pencilling him into the 23-24 roster already, even though in general it’s much, much more likely for star hockey players to stay in the same spot. Maybe I should start trading for Point, Makar, Hall, and Nylander to come home and play for Calgary lol
Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:05 p.m.
#704
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Quoting: aadoyle


Anyone else smell Bull****

As come on if you never wanted out

1. Why did you only sign 1 year
2. Why were you in MTL at the draft when rumors were MTL was gonna trade for Dach then use him to get you
3. Your agent said in an interview you want to play in MTL

In my mind he requested a trade but he wanted it to be more private which was where the draft came as it would be a surprise 3 team trade where he goes to MTL, WPG gets Dach and Chicago gets picks but nope didnt happen and then his agent spilled the beans. Gonna be very uncomfortable in WPG especially in that locker room


What is he supposed to say?

“Yeah I want to be traded, hopefully to the Habs”
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:06 p.m.
#705
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Quoting: Alfie11
Every front office is great during a rebuild.


Tell that to the Coyotes, the Sharks, the Oilers, the Blackhawks

Quoting: Alfie11
I wouldn’t call Gorton an elite GM, and he’s not even the GM. And yeah Letang really wanted to play in Montreal, which is why he signed for longer than the rest of his career to stay in Pittsburgh lol.


A rebuilding team would've never signed an injury prone Letang till he's 42 lol, and if it took him a 6-year deal to make him stay, it's probably because he was tempted to go somewhere else, no?

Quoting: Alfie11
Maybe I should start trading for Point, Makar, Hall, and Nylander to come home and play for Calgary lol


Has there ever been a player who willingly signed a contract to come home to Calgary? It's a wonderful city, but the attachment & nationalism is not the same in Alberta and Québec at all.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:16 p.m.
#706
v5 Minnesota GM
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Tell that to the Coyotes, the Sharks, the Oilers, the Blackhawks



A rebuilding team would've never signed an injury prone Letang till he's 42 lol, and if it took him a 6-year deal to make him stay, it's probably because he was tempted to go somewhere else, no?



Has there ever been a player who willingly signed a contract to come home to Calgary? It's a wonderful city, but the attachment & nationalism is not the same in Alberta and Québec at all.


Tbh. I love Arizonas front office
Armstrong is like a top 3 GM for me
And Plandowski and that other guy who called the 29th pick, are great scouts
Andre Tourigny will be a great coach when his lineup is good.
It's a very good and out together front office, that honestly, makes them my 3rd fave team.
I like Doug Wilson Jr. But that's about it for the Sharks. And he quit, so I agree on the Sharks.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:21 p.m.
#707
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Tell that to the Coyotes, the Sharks, the Oilers, the Blackhawks



A rebuilding team would've never signed an injury prone Letang till he's 42 lol, and if it took him a 6-year deal to make him stay, it's probably because he was tempted to go somewhere else, no?



Has there ever been a player who willingly signed a contract to come home to Calgary? It's a wonderful city, but the attachment & nationalism is not the same in Alberta and Québec at all.

You can’t tell me that nobody liked the Oilers front office for the first couple years when they were new and selecting high end prospects with high picks. It’s the moves that came later that cemented their fate as a terrible front office. Nobody seems to have much bad to say about Bill Armstrong and he just had a good draft after selling everybody and being paid to be the landing spot for bad contracts, which is the easy part. Grier has had the job for like two weeks and already managed to move one of the unmovable boat anchor contracts and there’s optimism around their last couple drafts. The problems there seem to be more on the ownership side. The Blackhawks don’t count as an NHL franchise, they should fold.

Why not? It would be a W in the PR department and it’s not like you need cap space for a few years. He signed in Pittsburgh because he wanted to stay where he’s been his whole career and he has a chance to win there, and they were willing to compensate him fairly. From Letang’s POV there was no reason to go to Montreal unless they offered him too much money and/or term. If he really wanted to go home and play for cheap like Habs fans seem to expect, that would’ve happened. And Bergeron is never leaving Boston and to suggest otherwise is foolish. Montreal wasn’t even his childhood team, Quebec was lol

Dunno, Calgary doesn’t produce too many stars specifically. But claiming everyone from an entire province has to love the one team there and wants to come home is incredibly naive. Countless Canadians never play in Canada for their whole career. The going home narrative is stupid anyway. It’s only really a thing for guys at the very end of their careers anyway (see: Spezza). The rest of the time it’s because they happen to fill a need for that team at the time they’re a UFA and because they’re fairly compensated by a team they think is good or will be in short order (see: Tavares, Giroux). What use is a 30yo Huberdeau to a team that will likely finish bottom 5 again? Slightly more use than a 35yo Letang or 37yo Bergeron to a team that finished dead last, but not by much. Which is also part of why they didn’t go there.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:38 p.m.
#708
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Edited Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:46 p.m.
Quoting: Alfie11
You can’t tell me that nobody liked the Oilers front office for the first couple years when they were new and selecting high end prospects with high picks. It’s the moves that came later that cemented their fate as a terrible front office. Nobody seems to have much bad to say about Bill Armstrong and he just had a good draft after selling everybody and being paid to be the landing spot for bad contracts, which is the easy part. Grier has had the job for like two weeks and already managed to move one of the unmovable boat anchor contracts and there’s optimism around their last couple drafts. The problems there seem to be more on the ownership side. The Blackhawks don’t count as an NHL franchise, they should fold.

Why not? It would be a W in the PR department and it’s not like you need cap space for a few years. He signed in Pittsburgh because he wanted to stay where he’s been his whole career and he has a chance to win there, and they were willing to compensate him fairly. From Letang’s POV there was no reason to go to Montreal unless they offered him too much money and/or term. If he really wanted to go home and play for cheap like Habs fans seem to expect, that would’ve happened. And Bergeron is never leaving Boston and to suggest otherwise is foolish. Montreal wasn’t even his childhood team, Quebec was lol

Dunno, Calgary doesn’t produce too many stars specifically. But claiming everyone from an entire province has to love the one team there and wants to come home is incredibly naive. Countless Canadians never play in Canada for their whole career. The going home narrative is stupid anyway. It’s only really a thing for guys at the very end of their careers anyway (see: Spezza). The rest of the time it’s because they happen to fill a need for that team at the time they’re a UFA and because they’re fairly compensated by a team they think is good or will be in short order (see: Tavares, Giroux). What use is a 30yo Huberdeau to a team that will likely finish bottom 5 again? Slightly more use than a 35yo Letang or 37yo Bergeron to a team that finished dead last, but not by much. Which is also part of why they didn’t go there.


Grier had the job for two weeks and traded the #11 OA pick for two late picks even though the team was in dire need of high-end guys rather than multiple lower-end prospects, traded a top 3 defenseman (33% retained) for nothing and signed the equivalent of a whole roster of bottom 6ers in FA. Coyotes have been rebuilding ever since the little run with Taylor Hall and will likely be rebuilding for the next decade. The Blackhawks do count, there's no reason why they shouldn't count.

Signing Letang for 6 years until he's 42 is not a W in the PR department or a W in anything. Heck, this contract would outlast Caufield's and Slafkovsky's ELCs + potential bridge deals. If you have to bank on "yeah, he could be LTIR at some point when it's convenient", it's best to avoid that deal, especially for a rebuilding team. While I do agree that some Habs fans are overexaggerating their hometown discounts ideas (I've personally never said anything Bergeron coming here, ever, because it doesn't make sense at all), it's happened in recent memory and just last season, one of the most coveted free agent defensemen took less to come home - the season he had is another story lol. Also, Canadians of other provinces identify themselves as Canadian 1st, Albertan/Ontarian 2nd. It's the opposite in Québec. If there was a Finnish team in the NHL, I'd certainly understand the common narrative of people assuming Finnish players would want to go there.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:47 p.m.
#709
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I still can't believe Kadri and Klingberg haven't signed yet.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:47 p.m.
#710
Farewell
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I would like to take a moment to announce that I have decided that the next 30 days will be my last ones spent on CF.

This is an awesome site. Shoutout to the incredible creator and editor/moderator-in-chief @Banks for creating it. I first discovered it while Googling how to make a mock Kraken expansion draft, and in doing so, clicked on CapFriendly. I have (mostly smile) enjoyed the time I spent on here, and I will write a longer, more thought-out letter in a month's time giving shoutouts to specific users whom I enjoyed interacting with.

However, as has been proven time and time again (especially in the modern age), debatable topics bring out the worst in people, especially on the Internet (on both sides of the aisle). To use the latest example, the horrifying alleged rape/sexual assault of multiple women at the hands of unnamed players, all covered up and swept under the rug by Hockey Canada.

Let me be very clear: this is inhuman, monstrous behavior, and it should be treated as such. I am saddened to see some on one side of the aisle seem to take a blasé approach to such allegations and insist that no matter what else comes to light, the worst possible course of action would be to ban Hockey Canada from a future tournament. That's just sad. Hockey is a sport. It's secondary to life. If any woman was indeed assaulted by players and Hockey Canada knew about it and covered it up, then they should be punished accordingly.

Simultaneously, I am also disappointed (but not surprised) to see some on the other side of the aisle accuse those who merely say (correctly) "we should wait for further evidence to come out before denouncing the entire Hockey Canada organization as complicit and that this is not representative of the hockey community as a whole" as inhumane misogynists who simply hate women and refuse to see that the sport that they love is rotten to its core. It's not. Stop castigating everyone who disagrees with you as a hateful bigot. Even if you think they're wrong, that doesn't mean they're hateful.

And this is just one example. It's happened previously with COVID-related issues, the Blackhawks' logo, and at times has even descended into outright political squabbling which has no place on a hockey forum.

That being said, I'd like to end off on a happy note. These season-discussion threads have been awesome, both interesting and engaging, where I can discuss (or even argue smile) with (mostly) well-informed knowledgeable hockey fans who bring insightful opinions and topics to the forum. I've enjoyed it.

Again, I'm not leaving yet. I'll be on here for about another month. Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:55 p.m.
#711
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
I would like to take a moment to announce that I have decided that the next 30 days will be my last ones spent on CF.

This is an awesome site. Shoutout to the incredible creator and editor/moderator-in-chief Banks for creating it. I first discovered it while Googling how to make a mock Kraken expansion draft, and in doing so, clicked on CapFriendly. I have (mostly smile) enjoyed the time I spent on here, and I will write a longer, more thought-out letter in a month's time giving shoutouts to specific users whom I enjoyed interacting with.

However, as has been proven time and time again (especially in the modern age), debatable topics bring out the worst in people, especially on the Internet (on both sides of the aisle). To use the latest example, the horrifying alleged rape/sexual assault of multiple women at the hands of unnamed players, all covered up and swept under the rug by Hockey Canada.

Let me be very clear: this is inhuman, monstrous behavior, and it should be treated as such. I am saddened to see some on one side of the aisle seem to take a blasé approach to such allegations and insist that no matter what else comes to light, the worst possible course of action would be to ban Hockey Canada from a future tournament. That's just sad. Hockey is a sport. It's secondary to life. If any woman was indeed assaulted by players and Hockey Canada knew about it and covered it up, then they should be punished accordingly.

Simultaneously, I am also disappointed (but not surprised) to see some on the other side of the aisle accuse those who merely say (correctly) "we should wait for further evidence to come out before denouncing the entire Hockey Canada organization as complicit and that this is not representative of the hockey community as a whole" as inhumane misogynists who simply hate women and refuse to see that the sport that they love is rotten to its core. It's not. Stop castigating everyone who disagrees with you as a hateful bigot. Even if you think they're wrong, that doesn't mean they're hateful.

And this is just one example. It's happened previously with COVID-related issues, the Blackhawks' logo, and at times has even descended into outright political squabbling which has no place on a hockey forum.

That being said, I'd like to end off on a happy note. These season-discussion threads have been awesome, both interesting and engaging, where I can discuss (or even argue smile) with (mostly) well-informed knowledgeable hockey fans who bring insightful opinions and topics to the forum. I've enjoyed it.

Again, I'm not leaving yet. I'll be on here for about another month. Just wanted to give everyone a heads-up.


Glad you enjoyed these Forums! This specifically, "where I can discuss (or even argue smile) with (mostly) well-informed knowledgeable hockey fans who bring insightful opinions and topics to the forum. I've enjoyed it." was the reason I created them way back in January 2021. The point was to gather together the users on the sight who can have thoughtful and even headed conversations about their own and other teams while acknowledging the bias of their views.

I am sad to see you go, but also glad that you are making a choice that seems to be the best for your own person! All the best!
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:56 p.m.
#712
Farewell
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Glad you enjoyed these Forums! This specifically, "where I can discuss (or even argue smile) with (mostly) well-informed knowledgeable hockey fans who bring insightful opinions and topics to the forum. I've enjoyed it." was the reason I created them way back in January 2021. The point was to gather together the users on the sight who can have thoughtful and even headed conversations about their own and other teams while acknowledging the bias of their views.

I am sad to see you go, but also glad that you are making a choice that seems to be the best for your own person! All the best!


Thanks dude! Really appreciate it (and again, I'm still around for the next month smile)
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 4:59 p.m.
#713
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Thanks dude! Really appreciate it (and again, I'm still around for the next month smile)


Oh yea i havent forgot! You just going to delete your account or become inactive?
Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:02 p.m.
#714
Farewell
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Oh yea i havent forgot! You just going to delete your account or become inactive?


Probably delete my account. If I make a choice, I want to stick with it (and simply leaving my account inactive opens the door to a return).
Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:10 p.m.
#715
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Grier had the job for two weeks and traded the #11 OA pick for two late picks even though the team was in dire need of high-end guys rather than multiple lower-end prospects, traded a top 3 defenseman (33% retained) for nothing and signed the equivalent of a whole roster of bottom 6ers in FA. Coyotes have been rebuilding ever since the little run with Taylor Hall and will likely be rebuilding for the next decade. The Blackhawks do count, there's no reason why they shouldn't count.

Signing Letang for 6 years until he's 42 is not a W in the PR department or a W in anything. Heck, this contract would outlast Caufield's and Slafkovsky's ELCs + potential bridge deals. If you have to bank on "yeah, he could be LTIR at some point when it's convenient", it's best to avoid that deal, especially for a rebuilding team. While I do agree that some Habs fans are overexaggerating their hometown discounts ideas (I've personally never said anything Bergeron coming here, ever, because it doesn't make sense at all), it's happened in recent memory and just last season, one of the most coveted free agent defensemen took less to come home - the season he had is another story lol. Also, Canadians of other provinces identify themselves as Canadian 1st, Albertan/Ontarian 2nd. It's the opposite in Québec. If there was a Finnish team in the NHL, I'd certainly understand the common narrative of people assuming Finnish players would want to go there.

If the Sharks didn’t like Kemell or Lekkerimaki (understandable given that too many small forwards doesn’t work and they already have Eklund), then trading 11oa for 3 picks was the best option, especially because they took 3 good prospects. I’d rather have Bystedt, Lund, and Havelid than Geekie personally. Burns is a top 3 defenseman being paid like a #1 for 3 more years, and he’s already 37. The 5.4mil cap space is likely more valuable than he will be over the next three years alone, and they did manage to get slight positive value out of the deal. Why should a rebuilding team sign big name FAs lol? Arizona as a franchise sucks and the ownership is questionable. Arizona’s front office isn’t terrible, Armstrong hasn’t really made a mistake yet and the scouts had a good draft. Chicago’s at least starting the tank the right way, although we can say Davidson is inept a lot earlier than we could Chiarelli thanks to the DeBrincat trade. The concept of selling everyone for picks and taking on bad contracts is fine though (if they’re really down on Dach, replacing him with Nazar is solid, and while they might’ve been able to burn Toronto more they still picked up another 1st).

Not gonna argue that they should’ve given Letang 6 years because I don’t believe that (I do think they could’ve, but that’s different), but my main point there is that he had the chance to take a hometown discount and didn’t even (legally) give Montreal the opportunity to pitch him. So PLD is the only one that wants to go play in Montreal, but he’s played in Columbus under Torts and Winnipeg in Scheifele and Wheeler’s toxic locker room so far in his career. Just about anywhere would be an improvement, and I wonder if he’d be wanting to go to Montreal at this point if he’d been drafted by the Rangers or something. Bergeron is obviously never happening. Huberdeau, like Letang, doesn’t exactly fit the Habs competitive timeline, but if he does go there, it’ll be mainly because they came with a big time offer, seeing how he’s been underpaid his whole career (see: Tavares). So you’re at best 1 for 4 and I doubt PLD is gonna want to play in Montreal for long if they lowball him. Not to mention the inherent flaw in assuming everyone from Quebec loves Montreal as a city and the Habs as their team. It’s likely that the latter is true for the younger generation, but not something that should be assumed and used as leverage lol
Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:13 p.m.
#716
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Jacked Hughes
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:14 p.m.
#717
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Quoting: Devil




Jacked Hughes

only not tiny Hughes
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:15 p.m.
#718
Farewell
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Quoting: Devil




Jacked Hughes


I see what you did there wink
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:15 p.m.
#719
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EklundCelebriniSmith
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Edited Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:35 p.m.
Quoting: SevenLeg
Tell that to the Coyotes, the Sharks, the Oilers, the Blackhawks


WOAH NOW WHYS SAN JOSE CATCHING THE STRAY?
Haha.

We haven’t even started a rebuild! The owner wants perennial “contention”. Whatever you say Hasso, bury the franchise.

While I do agree with you - I do see the merit in Bystedt, Lund/ Havelids over picking 11th if they didn’t love anyone there (as the report was they set on Savoie). Don’t get me wrong I woulda loved Lekki, Kemell but honestly Lund is already turning heads - we’ll see him at the WJC potentially and see what he’s made of. Havelids is a high value/ risk pick. And Bystedt seems like a project worth taking on as he seems like a guy who’s going to make the NHL full time and now it’s just down to developing him.

But I do stand pat; San Jose has just “begun” their rebuild if that was to correct my statement a moment ago. It’s been literally weeks, not even long into this “new phase” which I still don’t believe is a true rebuild but it’s the closest we’ll get I think - as there’s not been any selling of assets or moving of value for gain. The only thing that’s begun has been moving Burns but other than that there’s hardly been anything “rebuild” worthy.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:29 p.m.
#720
Farewell
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Happy Birthday Vasi! cool

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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:33 p.m.
#721
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Quoting: Alfie11
Every front office is great during a rebuild. And being good at hockey does not make you good at anything else. There’s hope for a better future, but not a guarantee. Gorton and Bobrov were fine hires, but I wouldn’t call Gorton an elite GM, and he’s not even the GM. And yeah Letang really wanted to play in Montreal, which is why he signed for longer than the rest of his career to stay in Pittsburgh lol. If the Montreal media asks if he’d play in Montreal, what is he supposed to say? Huberdeau just said he’d be open to signing long term in Calgary too, and he was open to signing in Florida prior to the trade, so that’s 3 teams before the market opens right there. You don’t see me pencilling him into the 23-24 roster already, even though in general it’s much, much more likely for star hockey players to stay in the same spot. Maybe I should start trading for Point, Makar, Hall, and Nylander to come home and play for Calgary lol


”[…] Nylander to come home and play for Calgary lol”. I lol’d at that.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:43 p.m.
#722
Hop on the Slaftrain
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Quoting: yikes
WOAH NOW WHYS SAN JOSE CATCHING THE STRAY?
Haha.

We haven’t even started a rebuild! The owner wants perennial “contention”. Whatever you say Hasso, bury the franchise.

While I do agree with you - I do see the merit in Bystedt, Lund/ Havelids over picking 11th if they didn’t love anyone there (as the report was they set on Savoie). Don’t get me wrong I woulda loved Lekki, Kemell but honestly Lund is already turning heads - we’ll see him at the WJC potentially and see what he’s made of. Havelids is a high value/ risk pick. And Bystedt seems like a project worth taking on as he seems like a guy who’s going to make the NHL full time and now it’s just down to developing him.

But I do stand pat; San Jose has just “begun” their rebuild if that was to correct my statement a moment ago. It’s been literally weeks, not even long into this “new phase” which I still don’t believe is a true rebuild but it’s the closest we’ll get I think - as there’s not been any selling of assets or moving of value for gain. The only thing that’s begun has been moving Burns but other than that there’s hardly been anything “rebuild” worthy.


Do you, as a Sharks fan, look at what the team has done in the past month or so and say "wow I'm so confident in this team's new front office!" ?
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:48 p.m.
#723
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Quoting: Isles10
”[…] Nylander to come home and play for Calgary lol”. I lol’d at that.

Getting sick of these Leafs fans lol. Can’t wait until next year when I’ll offer Zadorov and Kevin Rooney for Nylander (retained) because he’s a rental that wants to come home.
Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:52 p.m.
#724
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Quoting: Alfie11
Getting sick of these Leafs fans lol. Can’t wait until next year when I’ll offer Zadorov and Kevin Rooney for Nylander (retained) because he’s a rental that wants to come home.


I just thought it was funny thinking about Nylander considering Calgary ”home” after being born there and really never spent anytime there at all lol. But yeah I look forward to that trade, great value for both teams.
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Jul. 25, 2022 at 5:54 p.m.
#725
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Joined: Aug. 2020
Posts: 9,527
Likes: 8,968
Quoting: Isles10
I just thought it was funny thinking about Nylander considering Calgary ”home” after being born there and really never spent anytime there at all lol. But yeah I look forward to that trade, great value for both teams.

And it still somehow makes more sense than someone born in the middle of nowhere in northwest Ontario going “home” to Toronto lol
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