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2023 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #3 - Free Agent Frenzy

One of the more popular debates online recently has been Malkin vs Kane. Who do you guys think had the better career? I'm going with Geno
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Jul. 5, 2023 at 11:05 p.m.
#901
HockeyScotty
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Quoting: Pompadour_de_Armstrong
I don't think they can count on Fabbri to be healthy as a top six center, and Copp is definitely better suited to third. I don't think they signed JT to a $5M deal be a winger. The center depth looks atrocious after Larkin. Whether he stays at center, who knows. Kind of the same boat as Fabbri. Both probably best at wing.


Well they paid Copp even more than Compher. Maybe put all 3 on a line and they'll get one in aggregate! 😄
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 12:31 a.m.
#902
CantStopWontStop
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Edited Jul. 6, 2023 at 12:37 a.m.
Unsure my feelings on this statement:

“Auston Matthews should not earn more than 12.5 mil / year AAV.” (McDavid’s AAV)

On one hand, he should earn more by how the system works. He’s selling UFA years and outperformed his last contract. He should probably get max, and if he continues on his current path he will outperform it.

On the other, the optics aren’t amazing if he’s earning more than McDavid while McDavid is vastly outperforming him. The talking point that the “core 4” earn too much is repeated by some as is, it would only get louder, to the point that it might be all that is heard.

Idk hope he gets his bag, but maybe it’s best if his bag is like 12.4 x 4.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 12:50 a.m.
#903
aadoyle
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Edited Jul. 6, 2023 at 1:17 a.m.
Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Unsure my feelings on this statement:

“Auston Matthews should not earn more than 12.5 mil / year AAV.” (McDavid’s AAV)

On one hand, he should earn more by how the system works. He’s selling UFA years and outperformed his last contract. He should probably get max, and if he continues on his current path he will outperform it.

On the other, the optics aren’t amazing if he’s earning more than McDavid while McDavid is vastly outperforming him. The talking point that the “core 4” earn too much is repeated by some as is, it would only get louder, to the point that it might be all that is heard.

Idk hope he gets his bag, but maybe it’s best if his bag is like 12.4 x 4.


Yeah u offer him that hes leaving lul

A healthy Matthews is a scary player when healthy scored 60 goals and over 100 points even after missing 9 games and won multiple Rocket trophies, a Hart, and Con Smyth

Imagine he played the full season how many goals would he have had who knows maybe 70 at the pace he was going and I believe was the highest season goal scoring American player beating out Jimmy Carson.

Then last season guy lead the league in blocked shots and despite not being 100% scored 40 goals.

Guys getting 13mill and is due for a rebound season

As rn funny enough hes ahead of Ovie in goals per game at 0.62 vs Ovie 0.61 in comparison McDavid's at a 0.53 and Draisaitl a 0.48. And this is big when u consider guys only played 481 games


Also big head stat posted something interesting on him, Crosby, and Mcdavid should check it out
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 7:38 a.m.
#904
A_Habs_fan
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Unsure my feelings on this statement:

“Auston Matthews should not earn more than 12.5 mil / year AAV.” (McDavid’s AAV)

On one hand, he should earn more by how the system works. He’s selling UFA years and outperformed his last contract. He should probably get max, and if he continues on his current path he will outperform it.

On the other, the optics aren’t amazing if he’s earning more than McDavid while McDavid is vastly outperforming him. The talking point that the “core 4” earn too much is repeated by some as is, it would only get louder, to the point that it might be all that is heard.

Idk hope he gets his bag, but maybe it’s best if his bag is like 12.4 x 4.


See, the thing is, while now paying Matthews 12.5 doesn’t really make sense, long term, with the cap going up and everything, 12.5 on Matthews would look amazing, I think Matthews probably gets somewhere along the lines of 13mil
Jul. 6, 2023 at 9:05 a.m.
#905
Steven_Stamkos
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
Yzerman shot himself in the foot by signing a ton of guys imo because he's just blocking the younger players from ice time.


It’s a perplexing course of action for sure. We will be much better this year, and I really think he just wants to make the team more competitive. Edvinsson wont be full time this year unless he is phenomenal in his increased amount of games this year (which is very possible, he was excellent in 9 last year). He’ll get between 10-30 games this year probably but Stevie’ll let him bake in GR, although he really could make the jump this year. He just doesn’t want to rush him. We are much deeper at every position and that will be good with getting playoff experience and starting to build a competitive culture for real. Most of these guys just feel like filler honestly. Until our best prospects become full time Ghost, Holl, Fischer, Sprong, Chariot, Perron, Reimer, Kubalik, Fabbri, Maata. All guys I like. But within the next 2-3 years, I don’t think it’s that unlikely that 50% of the roster is overhauled. Im hyped though. We might get back to the ploffs this year! Toronto probably runs away with the Atlantic, and it will be a dogfight for the other spots. Tampa, Florida, Buffalo, Detroit, Ottawa, Boston. Add in the Metro and it’s feeling like the east is going to be much more competitive than the west this year.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:22 a.m.
#906
mondo
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:31 a.m.
#907
CantStopWontStop
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Quoting: mondo




Is intense.

On one hand: take 4.5 million dollars to go to the AHL and learn how to be a middle 6 forward, likely cast into that role for the rest of nhl time

On the other: leave 4.5 million on the table and find a top 6 role at a discount, but if it doesn’t work, and the leash will probably be pretty short, then off to the AHL to learn how to be a middle 6 forward.

I’d sign him based on that confidence alone.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:33 a.m.
#908
wolfwood2099
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Quoting: mondo




Hoping B's taker a flyer this is the kind of low risk high reward signing we need , it worked with Zacha
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:35 a.m.
#909
mondo
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Is intense.

On one hand: take 4.5 million dollars to go to the AHL and learn how to be a middle 6 forward, likely cast into that role for the rest of nhl time

On the other: leave 4.5 million on the table and find a top 6 role at a discount, but if it doesn’t work, and the leash will probably be pretty short, then off to the AHL to learn how to be a middle 6 forward.

I’d sign him based on that confidence alone.


Quoting: wolfwood2099
Hoping B's taker a flyer this is the kind of low risk high reward signing we need , it worked with Zacha


He'll definitely get interest. I think the reason he cleared waivers was his contract - it's an 1.825M AAV but the salary is 1.83M this season and 2.73M the next. Much more palatable to sign him for near league minimum.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:38 a.m.
#910
CantStopWontStop
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Quoting: mondo
He'll definitely get interest. I think the reason he cleared waivers was his contract - it's an 1.825M AAV but the salary is 1.83M this season and 2.73M the next. Much more palatable to sign him for near league minimum.


For sure, but termination is only mutual. He had to agree. He could have kept all those dollars playing a less role, and then became a ufa likely signed for at worst league min. But now there’s no millions except the same outcome can happen. Scary.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:41 a.m.
#911
Hurricanes_WPG
More Finns More Wins
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Quoting: mondo




Last year, Carolina took a flyer on Sebastian Aho's WJC linemate from when they lit up the tournament together.
Now while Zadina and Necas didn't light up the 2018 tournament the same way Aho and Puljujarvi did in 2016 (Necas finished 2nd in points and Zadina finished 7th), I wouldn't mind seeing those two together again to see if they still have it.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 11:48 a.m.
#912
HockeyScotty
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Darren Helm is going to retire from the NHL.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 12:18 p.m.
#913
dannibalcorpse
we miss leo k
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Quoting: Tintin
JustANote on why free agency this year may have felt underwhelming from a fan perspective.
This UFA class on July 1st seemed very weak compared to previous years and I think a lot of that might be down to all the most interesting pending UFAs signing extensions way before the free agency period.

Mackinnon
JT Miller
Sanheim
Weegar
Huberdeau
Zub
Kuzmenko
Zacha
Pavelski
Jensen
Walman
Horvat
Larkin
Pastrnak
Gavrikov
SeverGOAT
Haula
Jordan Staal
Barbashev

It will be very interesting to see how the situations with Matthews, Hellebuyck, DeBrincat and Sebastian Aho (Canes, though the bootleg one with the Islanders is pretty good to) will all play out.


just realized that both Sebastians Aho are UFA next summer, and now I'm sad Chuck Fletcher's no longer a GM and the likelihood of someone faxing a 7x$11M offer to the Isles' Sebastian Aho is significantly lowered
Jul. 6, 2023 at 1:27 p.m.
#914
Pompadour_de_Armstrong
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
For sure, but termination is only mutual.


In this case, it seems it was what he wanted, but teams just have to notify the player and PA of contract termination after waiving them. The player doesn't have to agree. I'm not sure where you're getting that. It's written right into the contract.

"13. The Club, in addition to other rights hereunder, at its option, by written notice delivered to the Player in accordance with Exhibit3, may terminate this SPC on the following conditions:

(a) The Club shall offer the Player on Unconditional Waivers, either before or promptly after the notice of intention to exercise the Ordinary Course buyout option (herein called "notice of termination") is given.

(b) Termination pursuant to this Paragraph shall be effective upon receipt by the Player of the notice of termination and the Player clearing Unconditional Waivers to Paragraph 13 (a) above."
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 1:32 p.m.
#915
zk97
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Quoting: mondo






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Jul. 6, 2023 at 1:50 p.m.
#916
dannibalcorpse
we miss leo k
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Quoting: zk97




1 goal in 13 combined career games against Montreal and Ottawa, so I guess he should've said "I'm going to fill their net with puck"

Weirdly good against the Hurricanes in his splits - 4-5-9 in 12 GP vs Carolina in his career.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 1:59 p.m.
#917
Tintin
do not Devil my ass
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Quoting: dannibalcorpse
Weirdly good against the Hurricanes in his splits - 4-5-9 in 12 GP vs Carolina in his career.

Give how the Devils struggled against the Canes in round 2 maybe it’d make sense for them to try and pick Zadina up.
I wouldn’t be against it if they aren’t bringing Boqvist back.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 2:32 p.m.
#918
CantStopWontStop
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Quoting: Pompadour_de_Armstrong
In this case, it seems it was what he wanted, but teams just have to notify the player and PA of contract termination after waiving them. The player doesn't have to agree. I'm not sure where you're getting that. It's written right into the contract.

"13. The Club, in addition to other rights hereunder, at its option, by written notice delivered to the Player in accordance with Exhibit3, may terminate this SPC on the following conditions:

(a) The Club shall offer the Player on Unconditional Waivers, either before or promptly after the notice of intention to exercise the Ordinary Course buyout option (herein called "notice of termination") is given.

(b) Termination pursuant to this Paragraph shall be effective upon receipt by the Player of the notice of termination and the Player clearing Unconditional Waivers to Paragraph 13 (a) above."


Are you sure this does not refer to using a buyout to terminate a contract?

Because think about it.

Why would any team ever buy out a contract if they could just terminate them.

Terminations are mutual. Well, whatever term you want to give what just happened to Zadina. I believe that can only happen with his approval. Idk the right term, because in either case a contract is terminated, but in this case there is no buyout, only opt out.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 2:37 p.m.
#919
mondo
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Are you sure this does not refer to using a buyout to terminate a contract?

Because think about it.

Why would any team ever buy out a contract if they could just terminate them.

Terminations are mutual. Well, whatever term you want to give what just happened to Zadina. I believe that can only happen with his approval.


@Pompadour_de_Armstrong

That section sounds like it's about contract termination similar to a buyout - you can terminate the contract of any player through unconditional waivers but a portion of it will still count against the cap. Mutual termination on the other hand allows the contract to be terminated without any cap penalty.

The difference is based on the player agreeing to the termination.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 2:41 p.m.
#920
CantStopWontStop
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Quoting: mondo
Pompadour_de_Armstrong

That section sounds like it's about contract termination similar to a buyout - you can terminate the contract of any player through unconditional waivers but a portion of it will still count against the cap. Mutual termination on the other hand allows the contract to be terminated without any cap penalty.

The difference is based on the player agreeing to the termination.


Maybe I’m just in the dark, but has the option to terminate a contract where some cap remains(the option without player consent) ever been used? I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of that in action. Seems like the only times you’d want that you’d probably have one party in breach of contract.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 2:44 p.m.
#921
mondo
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Maybe I’m just in the dark, but has the option to terminate a contract where some cap remains(the option without player consent) ever been used? I don’t believe I’ve ever heard of that in action. Seems like the only times you’d want that you’d probably have one party in breach of contract.


Kings did it with Kovalchuk a few years ago.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 2:57 p.m.
#922
Pompadour_de_Armstrong
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
Are you sure this does not refer to using a buyout to terminate a contract?


You'd have to terminate with cause outside of the buyout window. Or barring that an agreement. I was thinking of him as a buyout with the arbitration window, but now that you have me thinking about it, I don't think that opens until arbitration is awarded. So I think you're right. Unless he was refusing to report or did something to violate the contract, they'd need an agreement.
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Jul. 6, 2023 at 2:58 p.m.
#923
Pompadour_de_Armstrong
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Quoting: mondo
Kings did it with Kovalchuk a few years ago.


Got out of Richardson's nightmare too easily, also.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:32 p.m.
#924
CantStopWontStop
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Quoting: Pompadour_de_Armstrong
You'd have to terminate with cause outside of the buyout window. Or barring that an agreement. I was thinking of him as a buyout with the arbitration window, but now that you have me thinking about it, I don't think that opens until arbitration is awarded. So I think you're right. Unless he was refusing to report or did something to violate the contract, they'd need an agreement.


You did nail the rumored reason: refusal to report.

Basically, report to AHL or you are in breach of contract, player agrees, agrees to terminate. I don’t know what steps come if the player refused to report but also refused to terminate. Then I guess there’s probably something behind the scenes you’d think cause that don’t make much sense just as is.
Jul. 6, 2023 at 4:49 p.m.
#925
BigBallsBriere
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fair deal for both sides
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