Hawks probably accept.

Not sure I understand the Girard trade from the Avs POV.

Feels like a lot of the fan base has their eyes on Lindholm and Dickinson. Returns seem just a tad on the high side, but not completely unreasonable assuming you have retention added.

Slight overpay for Lindholm
Giving Girard away
Dickinson is Eller 2.0

In the context of this trade, it may be to clear cap space to try to re-sign a guy like Lindholm or allocated the cap space differently.

The Girard trade doesn't make sense from the Habs POV or a Girard POV though.Girard doesn't address a need for the Habs and Montreal is literally the worst place to play for a French Canadian player who needs to manage anxiety and depression.

I don't see the Habs making this deal. We dont have enough RHD and to many LHD, add that the Habs want picks and they want youth......it just doesn't make sense for them even if they're under paying for the player

Ya girard fresh off the player assistance program does not remotely have that trade value.

His underlying numbers have been subpar and hes badly undersized

A young top 4 defenseman doesn’t have the trade value of Kovacevic and 2nd? Habs may not need a D, but the value here is skewed towards Montreal.

Young? He turns 26 in may so not thats young.

Hes generously 5'10 and is now gping on 3 years of subpar analytics despite fairly easy deployment, was not productive leading up to the entry intto the assistance program.

Hes making 5 million per year and has a fairly big 9 team no trade list.

Hes not worth a 2nd and kovacevic. Theres a reaaon why despite being on the block for years they havent been able to trade him. They gave a 3 million guy a 5 million deal and teams straight up dont want undersized dmen who arent 60+ point guys.

This would definitely get it done, even though COL's picks will all be late in the round.

Are we talking about the same player?

He’s 25. That’s relatively young to be an established NHLer. He’ll still be in his 20s when this contract ends. You’re right though, he’s not 20 anymore. There are younger players in the NHL, if that’s the point you’re trying to make?

Girard plays heavy minutes. He’s played over 20 minutes a night this season, including over 2 minutes per game on the PK. Only Makar and Toews play heavier minutes from the D. Girard doesn’t even play PP anymore. Not sure where you’re getting this easy minutes thing from.

In terms of match ups: Girard isn’t sheltered. The dude plays match up minutes against McDavid when the Avs play Edmonton and looked excellent in doing so.

Girard hasn’t been on the trade block consistently. Just on this website. The Avs have come out and said as much themselves. Maybe once Toews’ extension kicks in, they’ll move one of Manson/Girard/Byram. But saying that Girard is on the block and nobody wants him is stupid.

People see a 5’10 defenseman who can skate and are lazy in their evaluation and assume he’s just a PP pigeon. Girard is good for 30 points a year, but his main focus is controlled zone exits. That’s a skill where he’s elite. The guy obviously isn’t perfect (can lose a net front battle, etc), but I don’t think you really know what you’re talking about here.

Kovacevic is a bottom pairing guy. At least he’s cheap though, good contract.

So true. For Girard’s sake, I’d hope he has some of those big markets on his NTC when it kicks in next year. A small and shy French Canadian under that microscope would be absolutely demolished by some media markets.

Why lie when all this information is easily available?

Hes not that young. Theres 75 dmen who have played 10 games this year who are ypunger than him. He is middle aged for the nhl.

He was on the pp hes averaged just shy of a minute per game this year.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-bell-ca-revc&source=android-browser&q=jfresh+girard#vhid=98iMfKma6Zw6sM&vssid=l

He was consistently being deployed with better teammates than the competition he was facing.

There are 9 D who have played 500 mins for the avalanche since the start of 21-22 season he isnt in the top 4 for relative cf, ff, gf xgf scf.

He is in the top 64 for dmen cap hits hes being paid as a low #2 when hes really a mediocre undersized #4

Age: he's 25. By your filters, he's #76 of 241 guys. He's younger than ~68% of players. What a weird thing to argue about lol.

Here's the Avs PP units. Makar is PP QB1, Toews is PP QB2. Girard plays random minutes every once in a while (he's played 12:28 on the PP this year, less than Byram (who also isn't a PP guy). If you want me to amend my statement and say "he's not on the standard PP units and only plays random minutes when there's an injury or something", that's fine also.



I was waiting for the JFresh player card! Here's JFresh's own thoughts on that. Context is important, you can't just google "jfresh girard" and think you know the individual's game.

https://x.com/JFreshHockey/status/1499177281155223564?s=20

In terms of the Avs defensemen and fancy stats: over that span of time, Girard is #4 in 5v5 xGF% at 50.59%. #1 and #2 are Cale Makar (56.70%) and Devon Toews (56.28%). Those guys are #8 and #12 in the league over that same period. #3 is Brad Hunt (50.98%) in a very small sample size. So in that sense: I agree with you, Sam Girard is worse than Cale Makar and Devon Toews. 95% of the league is!

Funny enough, if we're going to talk about xGF%: Makar, Toews, Hunt, and Byram all have a higher offensive zone start % over that time period. Girard is tied with Toews for defensive starts per 60. Only defensemen higher are Erik Johnson and Josh Manson.

Anyways, I'm done here.

Pass on Girard. He's not a stylistic fit as Avs fans love saying with Monahan.

I would want a 3rd or 4th added to that 2nd for Dickinson because that pick will be late 50's sniffing 60.

My counteroffer would be Dickinson (50% retained) with the worst 2nd the Hawks end up with and the Sens 3rd for the Avs 1st. That is a net cost of a pick in the mid 40's for Dickinson retained. Hawks have a lot of picks and would benefit from consolidating quantity into quality while the Avs have no 2nd or 3rd.

Where would Girard fit in Montreal? He isn't playing top 2 LD since Matheson and Guhle are well ahead of him and Hutson is coming by seasons end. He isn't playing 1st pairin RD since we need a defensive guy with Mateson (Savard) and Barron is much younger, has good chemistry with Guhle and we have Reinbacher and Mailloux coming and who are both likely to be much better. So where does that leave a small 5 mil unnecessary LHD? It leaves him out in the cold, since he is paid too much to play 3rd pairing. Avs should just keep their "allstar" Dman who can't even hold down a steady top 4 spot on their blueline

1. Teams will be willing to pay ALOT for Lindholm
2. Girard does not have much value with that contract. We need to get something for him while we can.
3. Eller played 2C last year at times. We are asking Dickinson to play 4C. Much different scenario.

1) maybe
2) you are delusional he is a 25yr old top 4 dman that produces 30pts with no PP1 time. He is awesome in transition, good defensively in an unconventional way, fans hate him because he is short. Do you really think the Avs are going to trade him for a fraction of what they got Newhook? He is a significantly more impactful player than Newhook. His awful contract is 5% of the cap next year, that’s a pittance for a guy a guy that plays 20+ minutes a game. Your assesment of Girard is so off base.
3) Eller wasn’t acquired to play 2C, if you think that you’re just wrong again, he was acquired exactly why you want to or why you think you want to acquire Dickinson, by the way have you looked at Dickinson shot metrics or FO%, or his TOI? What do you think happens when Bednar cuts his TOI by 20% using his rotation of playing bottom 6 guys 12 minutes or less? It will be Eller 2.0.

You must be out of your mind. I want whatever drug you're smoking!!

Girard makes this team worse I am sorry to say it. You can get almost as much out of Malanski for a fraction of the cost. We need the cap space for next year!

I know he wasn't brought in to play 2C but that's what ended up happening by the end of his tenure. He was way overplayed and overused for the role he was brought in to play. That's why people didn't think it was a good fit. He was meant to play 4C. Dickenson will be a fine 4C - way better than Oloffson.

How does Girard make the team worse? He’s been better than Byram this year. I get the take that you move Girard to save on cap and let Byram play bigger minutes, but your statement here is objectively not true.

I guess that's your opinion. I really don't like Girard as a player, never have. Nothing against the guy.

I think his problem is mostly eye test related. When he gets beat/outmuscled in front of the net, it looks awful. But I think about a guy like Zadorov during his Avs tenure: he looked lost around his net a lot of the time, but at least he was big and bruising and looked the part.

There is literally no factual basis for your statement. 5v5 CF of 56, even strength 56.1, a +3.4xGD all while rocking a stupid 92.2 PDO. Thats a ludicrous statement he makes the Avs worse I just proved they are a significantly better team when he plays. Even forgetting all of that you somehow think the difference between a top 4 dman that plays 20+ minutes a night and a 4C in COL playing 12 minutes is kovavevic. You want to talk about diminished value because he is in PAP sure but not giving him away, the absurdity of Avs fan giving Girard away is mind boggling the traffic cone known as Chiarot returned a 1st 4th and B prospect and Girard is so much better than Chiarot I don’t think you can quantify it.

And are you trying to make my points for me? Eller was brought in to C the 3rd line win key face offs etc none of which he was particularly good at in COL which they paid a 2nd, you want to pay a second for a 4th line guy whose worse at face offs and is going to play less minutes than he is now. Yeah another Eller. You’re buying high on everything and selling low on everything for no reason