Why is Aho not a comparable

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Created by: leafsFan1996

Team: 2019-20 Toronto Maple Leafs

Initial Creation Date: Aug. 29, 2019

Published: Aug. 29, 2019

Salary Cap Mode: Basic

Description

Aho is in the same tier as Rantanen, Point and Marner.

Aho is the best forward on his team which is not true for the other players listed and he is a center which adds more value than rantenan or Marner.

Sure it was an offersheet but he still had to accept the money. I don't understand why this is not a precedent for the other high end RFA's. especially with no other viable offersheet threats which lowers the leverage the rfa's currently have.

it bugs me when people (especially on here) try to galaxy brain why Marner should make 2-3 million more than his direct comparables.

Free Agent Signings

RFA		YEARS	CAP HIT
Marner, Mitchell		5	$8,450,000

Buyouts

Mikhail Grabovski: $0

Retained Salary Transactions

Phil Kessel: $1,200,000 (15%)

Draft	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
2020
2021
2022

ROSTER

LONG-TERM OUTLOOK

EMBED

TEXT-EMBED

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
23	$81,500,000	$80,372,199	$0	$0	$1,127,801

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000$2,250,000 RW, LW M-NTC UFA - 2	Tavares, John $11,000,000$11,000,000 C, LW NMC UFA - 6	Marner, Mitchell $8,450,000$8,450,000 RW UFA - 6
Johnsson, Andreas $3,400,000$3,400,000 LW, RW UFA - 4	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000$11,634,000 C UFA - 5	Nylander, William $6,962,366$6,962,366 RW UFA - 5
Mikheyev, Ilya $925,000$925,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Kerfoot, Alexander $3,500,000$3,500,000 LW, C, RW UFA - 4	Kapanen, Kasperi $3,200,000$3,200,000 RW UFA - 3
Agostino, Kenny $737,500$737,500 LW UFA - 2	Spezza, Jason $700,000$700,000 C, RW NTC UFA - 1	Moore, Trevor $775,000$775,000 LW, RW UFA - 2

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Muzzin, Jake $4,000,000$4,000,000 LD UFA - 1	Barrie, Tyson $2,750,000$2,750,000 RD UFA - 1	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000$5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 2
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000$5,000,000 LD UFA - 3	Ceci, Cody $4,500,000$4,500,000 RD UFA - 1	Hutchinson, Michael $700,000$700,000 G UFA - 1
Dermott, Travis $863,333$863,333 LD/RD UFA - 1	Schmaltz, Jordan $700,000$700,000 RD UFA - 1

Scratches	Injured Reserve (IR)	Long Term IR (LTIR)
Shore, Nick $750,000$750,000 C UFA - 1		Horton, Nathan $5,300,000$5,300,000 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
Åberg, Pontus $700,000$700,000 RW, LW UFA - 1		Clarkson, David $5,250,000$5,250,000 RW M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
Holl, Justin $675,000$675,000 RD UFA - 1

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:17 a.m.

#26

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

Banned

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Quoting: F50marco

For starters, Aho is closer to Point being that there both centers. Secondly, Marner scored more points than all these guys did. Playing in Toronto means higher taxes than Carolina. Aho took a deal that was lower than he probably should have got. The reason he said "**** it" is because he got a huge chunk of money right away so it kind of swayed him to take a little less than he might have been able to get had he waited out.

Im not saying Marner deserves 12M or anything but I also don't think 10M is asking too much for him either.

The tax issue isn't as big of an advantage as people think. It also is completely nullified by TO's ability to use bonus money instead of salary with star players. In fact, it can be argued that the bonus money TO can pay is a bigger advantage than tax free states. You get more upfront and can invest it quicker and gain more of interest and smart investing.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:18 a.m.

#27

Barbs

Biased Opinion

Joined: Mar. 2019

Posts: 2,683

Likes: 1,969

Quoting: SammyT_51

He is. 100%. Id argue that Aho is better player than Marner just because of his versatility on wing and center.

Also their supporting cast. No disrespect to the forwards of Carolina but if Aho played on a line with Tavares and got PP time with Matthews and friends he'd put up the same or greater numbers

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:18 a.m.

#28

CD282

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 24,044

Likes: 7,749

Quoting: Riley816

He is. Marner's played one more game. Has 27 more points. Approximately 10% more . That's 8.54 plus 10%. Or 10.3 mil over 5 year...

Your math skill need work. And Aho hasn't played with a talent like Tavares before. And he scores more goals than Marner. Goals are more valuable than assists - everyone knows this.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:18 a.m.

#29

Claesson4Norris

Joined: Jan. 2018

Posts: 17,009

Likes: 12,014

Because Aho actually wanted to stay in Carolina.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:19 a.m.

#30

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: Riley816

He is. Marner's played one more game. Has 27 more points. Approximately 10% more . That's 8.54 plus 10%. Or 10.3 mil over 5 year...

The centre vs winger argument though does have weight, a centre contributes far more to a team than a winger does. Marner is great but the suggestion that Aho, Rantanen and Point are all going to sign for under 9 and then Marner has to get 12 is just fan angst and emotional fans wanting to see TO burn. There is no other reasonable explanation for the legions of people wanting Marner to get so much money.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:19 a.m.

#31

CD282

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 24,044

Likes: 7,749

Quoting: F50marco

That's funny, does that mean Aho is being taxed in Quebec right now?..... He signed that deal knowing Carolina would match....where the taxes aren't as high....

He didn't "know" Carolina would match. That's just silly.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:20 a.m.

#32

leafsFan1996

Thread Starter

Joined: Oct. 2017

Posts: 416

Likes: 160

Quoting: feds91stammer

Comparing the Kuch signing is silly for so many reasons.

explain the reasons

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:21 a.m.

#33

Riley816

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 5,062

Likes: 2,008

Quoting: CD282

Your math skill need work. And Aho hasn't played with a talent like Tavares before. And he scores more goals than Marner. Goals are more valuable than assists - everyone knows this.

Tavares scored more goals than this year than any year in his career playing with Marner. And everyone goals are more valuable. Direct quote...

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:21 a.m.

#34

CD282

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 24,044

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Quoting: Claesson4Norris

Because Aho actually wanted to stay in Carolina.

So much that he signed an offer sheet for Montreal...

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:21 a.m.

#35

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,593

Likes: 6,732

Quoting: LoganOllivier

Or..... he could just be paid in bonus money up front AND be paid more due to higher taxes. That is also an option.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:22 a.m.

#36

GenXHockey

Formerly Jamiepo

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 21,157

Likes: 10,700

yup, Aho is a great comparable for all. Other than greed or jealousy in marners case I don’t see why the other RFA’s shouldn’t land close. This also goes for Tkachuk and Laine as well. Now Laine May be worth more and a short bridge may be the best option in his case. On a 5 year deal I don’t see it as unfair for all players listed by both you and myself here to land between 8-9m. Fair and reality may be two different things.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:22 a.m.

#37

F50marco

Joined: May 2015

Posts: 19,593

Likes: 6,732

Quoting: CD282

He didn't "know" Carolina would match. That's just silly.

Yep ok....

Edit: Funny we all knew they would but Aho didn't.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:22 a.m.

#38

feds91stammer

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 1,759

Likes: 801

Quoting: leafsFan1996

explain the reasons

The overall cap was a different number at the time. Stamkos and Hedman established a culture of leaving money on the table for the greater good of the team. The taxes. etc.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:23 a.m.

#39

Caniac2000

Joined: May 2018

Posts: 19,537

Likes: 5,032

Marner plays in the canadian market where tax is higher, therefore his ask will be higher. Aho is also a C and was very hot and cold, marner was at least consistent. Aho had the leverage to go play in Finland becuase his father is GM of Karpat. Aho isn't a direct comparable to Marner because they are worlds apart in their respective scenarios

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:25 a.m.

#40

exo2769

Joined: Jul. 2015

Posts: 15,649

Likes: 9,778

Quoting: CD282

Done what? In 2017-18 Marner scored 0.84 P/GP while Aho was at 0.83. But, Aho scored 29 goals to Marner's 22. So what exactly has Marner done for 2 seasons that Aho has only done for 1?

Fair point. The biggest reason is still Dubas.

CD282 liked this.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:25 a.m.

#41

TheresAlwaysNextYear

Joined: Dec. 2018

Posts: 2,571

Likes: 1,120

He is, but since he's an unsigned leaf he's all of a sudden worth 3 million more than he actually is. The second he signs a contract, he'll be overpaid and suck according to all the Leaf haters who claimed earlier he was worth 12 million

CD282 liked this.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:26 a.m.

#42

coga16

Joined: Jun. 2015

Posts: 20,030

Likes: 12,187

bc leafs media and fans have been claiming he is one of the greatest toronto born leafs of all time, and could be one of the latest leafs of all thime, best player on the team, heart and soul etc etc. But wont get paid the same as Matthews or Tavares yet the pumping up the lore of Marner for 3 seasons already.

This is what you sowed, cant have your cake and eat it too if you spend so much time especially in the media putting Marner on a pedestal

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:28 a.m.

#43

TheresAlwaysNextYear

Joined: Dec. 2018

Posts: 2,571

Likes: 1,120

Quoting: shmoeman

His comparables are Tavares and Matthews, if you pay your two stars 11 mill, the third is going to want (and deserve) somewhere around 11 mill as well

Using that logic, Rantanen should only take 6 million

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:29 a.m.

#44

CD282

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 24,044

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Quoting: Caniac2000

I don't buy that lower taxes in Carolina were a consideration when Aho signed Montreal's offer sheet.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:31 a.m.

#45

PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood

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Quoting: F50marco

Or..... he could just be paid in bonus money up front AND be paid more due to higher taxes. That is also an option.

And the conversation has turned into the I want to watch the Leafs burn mentality. That doesn't make sense, why would a team even entertain that. Tampa pays less than other teams because of no state tax, TO has the same advantage with the ability to pay so much bonus money but it doesn't matter because why? Because TO needs to play by other rules because it makes other fans happy to see them in trouble. What a joke.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:31 a.m.

#46

CD282

Joined: Mar. 2017

Posts: 24,044

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Quoting: TheresAlwaysNextYear

To be fair, Leafs fans and Leafs biased media are complicit in boosting Marner's ludicrous valuations.

And as a non-Leafs fan, I have stated clearly what I think Marner is worth.

Trickster liked this.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:32 a.m.

#47

GenXHockey

Formerly Jamiepo

Joined: Jul. 2018

Posts: 21,157

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Quoting: Caniac2000

Marner plays in a large market where he was racking up endorsements like crazy. The difference in taxes would be about 900k per season (that’s Carolina not Montreal where he actually signed the deal) Aho playing centre with more goals and less points, I think calling it even is generous.

Do I think marner will sign for that... nope. But it doesn’t mean it isn’t fair

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:33 a.m.

#48

Isles777

Isles7

Joined: Jun. 2019

Posts: 12,222

Likes: 5,299

If marner got the aho contract, most leafs fans would immediately switch positions and say marner is the better player and signed a team friendly deal.

Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:33 a.m.

#49

JayTea

14m in dead cap

Joined: Mar. 2019

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Someone may have already said it, but Marner will ignore all other RFA signings and use the one that is the best for him: Matthews. They play on the same team, under the same coach, and Marner scored more points. I don't blame him at all for trying.

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Aug. 29, 2019 at 11:33 a.m.

#50

leafsFan1996

Thread Starter

Joined: Oct. 2017

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Quoting: feds91stammer

The overall cap was a different number at the time. Stamkos and Hedman established a culture of leaving money on the table for the greater good of the team. The taxes. etc.

then use cap %, the Aho offersheet was from Montreal who also has a terrible tax situation, and Tavares left over 2 million on the table to come here instead of SJ

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