Forums/GM Game 2018-19

2018-19 GM Game - Official Scoring Thread

Aug 21, 2018 at 11:58
#51
Stars GM for V3
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,029
Likes: 1,443
Quoting: A_K
@ricochetii @TMLSage We (BOG) are discussing a fair path forward. I dont want you guys to feel unheard, but we are pretty confident in the model as it currently stands. It's worth noting that we included xGF as one of the ranking metrics in the original rules doc that everyone signed off on, but we always want to be democratic when issues arise. For now, we may just hold to see if there is dissent from more GMs.


I agree to abide with that system, or whatever replaces it, but will still do my best to steer the league in what I feel is the right direction through providing opinions and feedback.
I'm confident I was heard. If others disagree, so be it. smile
phillyjabroni, A_K, NateElder12 and 1 other person liked this.
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:13
#52
Quebec GM v4
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 9,274
Likes: 2,204
Quoting: TMLSage
But some of the analytics such as xGF I'd argue are counter productive to describing the current season.


Could you expand on how using a shot quality indicator and predictor of goal scoring would be perverse in our context?
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:27
#53
GM - Avalanche
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 676
Quoting: phillyjabroni
Could you expand on how using a shot quality indicator and predictor of goal scoring would be perverse in our context?


Say McDavid has xGF of 40, but in real life he scores 60 goals. So we are punishing the GM that owns McDavid by limiting their score.
The reverse is also true.

I feel like we are just hurting GMs for making the trades that pan out in the future. Otherwise, all the chips are on the table from the get go.
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:35
#54
Quebec GM v4
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 9,274
Likes: 2,204
Quoting: TMLSage
Say McDavid has xGF of 40, but in real life he scores 60 goals. So we are punishing the GM that owns McDavid by limiting their score.
The reverse is also true.

I feel like we are just hurting GMs for making the trades that pan out in the future. Otherwise, all the chips are on the table from the get go.


I think that it's important to address that in your example, you are referring to ixGF not xGF%. Using the Connor McDavid example, last season he had a GF% of 57.14 and an xGF% of 54.88%. This isn't going to "punish" GMs that own players like McDavid in this situation.

I also think that 10% of xGF% counting towards the overall output isn't going to hold back the 50% of offensive production, assuming that xGF% does in fact, "punish" production.
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:37
#55
GM - Avalanche
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 676
Quoting: phillyjabroni
I think that it's important to address that in your example, you are referring to ixGF not xGF%. Using the Connor McDavid example, last season he had a GF% of 57.14 and an xGF% of 54.88%. This isn't going to "punish" GMs that own players like McDavid in this situation.

I also think that 10% of xGF% counting towards the overall output isn't going to hold back the 50% of offensive production, assuming that xGF% does in fact, "punish" production.


If we have access to GF% why not just use that instead of xGF%
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:44
#56
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
Quoting: TMLSage
If we have access to GF% why not just use that instead of xGF%


I would say that the point is to give a more repeatable and predictive representation of how many scoring chances a player's team gets and where the chances are coming from. No stat is perfect, but a good mix of a few stats that have been proven to be reliable indicators of success is the model we're going for.
phillyjabroni liked this.
Aug 22, 2018 at 1:13
#57
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,868
Likes: 2,905
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
You just contradicted yourself. You said there can't be a winner yet there can be a cup winner. A cup winner is a winner.


But i mean the GM of the year award IRL doesn't always go to the GM of the cup winning team.
Aug 22, 2018 at 1:27
#58
@Pointerr21
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,432
Likes: 2,528
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
But i mean the GM of the year award IRL doesn't always go to the GM of the cup winning team.


What does that have to do with anything that's been discussed here?
Aug 22, 2018 at 2:35
#59
rangersandislesfan
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 26,868
Likes: 2,905
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
What does that have to do with anything that's been discussed here?


There is no one winner of the GM game
Aug 22, 2018 at 9:32
#60
NateElder12
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 5,736
Likes: 799
Quoting: rangersandislesfan
There is no one winner of the GM game


Raif, we can talk about your "winner" theory later or somewhere else. Do you have something to add to the scoring pertaining to the convo here? If not please stop spamming the "OFFICIAL SCORING THREAD" with empty comments so others can easily follow along with the convo that should take precedence here... Thanks
Aug 22, 2018 at 9:51
#61
V3 Canucks GM, BOG
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,932
Likes: 652
Sorry to jump back into this conversation randomly. The issue I had was not with using this scoring model for the regular season standings, it was using it for the playoffs.

There are many very good NHL players who don't produce many points and don't have great corsi or xGF because they play against top competition.

Using this model for the playoffs would make someone like Chris Tanev at best a 3rd pairing dman which just doesnt reflect his real life value.

Obviously there is a lot of room for bias if we use a voting system to determine the playoff outcomes, but I still think that it is the best system.
Aug 22, 2018 at 9:58
#62
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
Quoting: TonyStrecher
Sorry to jump back into this conversation randomly. The issue I had was not with using this scoring model for the regular season standings, it was using it for the playoffs.

There are many very good NHL players who don't produce many points and don't have great corsi or xGF because they play against top competition.

Using this model for the playoffs would make someone like Chris Tanev at best a 3rd pairing dman which just doesnt reflect his real life value.

Obviously there is a lot of room for bias if we use a voting system to determine the playoff outcomes, but I still think that it is the best system.


Duly noted, thanks for the feedback cheers
Sep 28, 2018 at 9:25
#63
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
Edited Nov 21, 2018 at 2:57
see revised post #1 in this thread
Mr_cap and Bo53Horvat liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 10:21
#64
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
Edited Oct 16, 2018 at 4:19
@ricochetii @rangersandislesfan @beanie2911 @Rodzikhockey93 @TonyStrecher @alwaysnextyear @Math @Bo53Horvat @MrBooth @Daryl @l9guysports @flamesfan419 @TabooPenguo @MacWinnon @NateElder12 @TMLSage @A_K @TrueNorth @wmjoncar @DontToewsMe19 @Mr_cap @mhockey91 @krakowitz @jmac490 @GronkNation @BoltsPoint21 @Ethereal @Icegirl @Turner33 @Dylan1995 @matt59

Attention GMs!

Scoring Update:

Thanks to all of you who submitted your roster for preseason rankings. After counting up how much time it took me to compile the rosters that GMs sent to me, I have decided that the simpler approach for everyone will be this:

1. GMs will keep their team pages up to date with the roster that they want to be scored, especially around the 20th day of each month. You will be scored with all roster slots, including healthy scratches, for the entire month based on your roster on the 20th.

Here's an example: if you trade Martin Erat for Filip Forsberg on the 15th of the October (and he appears on your team page), you will get credit for Forsberg's stats for the entire month of October when we publish at the end of the month. However, if you make the trade on the 29th of October, since it is past the 20th it will not be included in that month's scoring for your team and you will remain with Martin Erat's stats for October.

2. A BOG member (usually me but we all have access) will enter the rosters to the scoring sheet directly from the team pages. If we have any questions or issues with your roster, we will notify you to get clarity. Otherwise, GMs can check the scoring sheet to make sure their rosters have been entered to their liking, and notify the BOG of any concerns.

Note: Just for fun, I may decide to upload the stats from Corsica more frequently than monthly, but the official rankings will come at the end of each month. I will publish an archived version of the stats in this thread each month that will serve as power rankings, and there will be a live sheet that I keep updated in between.

Live Sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MoSC0tM8ApqbUvgAF1oq2Z89xSLwlf8Z_f3Jf-6opYs/edit?usp=sharing)

Preseason Rankings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LYHfK3K6ZozMg9nQwmNXoYIrQniGvkxu8YNIIm53nm0/edit?usp=sharing)

Direct any questions to the BOG thread.

Thanks,
@A_K, BOG
TMLSage, ricochetii, TonyStrecher and 1 other person liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 11:26
#65
Stars GM for V3
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,029
Likes: 1,443
Quoting: A_K
@ricochetii @rangersandislesfan @beanie2911 @Rodzikhockey93 @TonyStrecher @alwaysnextyear @Math @Bo53Horvat @MrBooth @Daryl @l9guysports @flamesfan419 @TabooPenguo @MacWinnon @NateElder12 @TMLSage @A_K @TrueNorth @wmjoncar @DontToewsMe19 @Mr_cap @mhockey91 @krakowitz @jmac490 @GronkNation @BoltsPoint21 @Ethereal @Icegirl @Turner33 @Dylan1995 @matt59

Attention GMs!

Scoring Update:

Thanks to all of you who submitted your roster for preseason rankings. After counting up how much time it took me to compile the rosters that GMs sent to me, I have decided that the simpler approach for everyone will be this:

1. GMs will keep their team pages up to date with the roster that they want to be scored, especially around the 20th day of each month. You will be scored with all roster slots, including healthy scratches, for the entire month based on your roster on the 20th.

Here's an example: if you trade Martin Erat for Filip Forsberg on the 15th of the October (and he appears on your team page), you will get credit for Forsberg's stats for the entire month of October when we publish at the end of the month. However, if you make the trade on the 29th of October, since it is past the 20th it will not be included in that month's scoring for your team and you will remain with Martin Erat's stats for October.

2. A BOG member (usually me but we all have access) will enter the rosters to the scoring sheet directly from the team pages. If we have any questions or issues with your roster, we will notify you to get clarity. Otherwise, GMs can check the scoring sheet to make sure their rosters have been entered to their liking, and notify the BOG of any concerns.

Note: Just for fun, I may decide to upload the stats from Corsica more frequently than monthly, but the official rankings will come at the end of each month. I will publish an archived version of the stats in this thread each month that will serve as power rankings, and there will be a live sheet that I keep updated in between.

Live Sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YpmoVUegSNXHvr66nD-XnvvFwENC9iyeRilhW_eva-M/edit?usp=sharing)

Preseason Rankings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LYHfK3K6ZozMg9nQwmNXoYIrQniGvkxu8YNIIm53nm0/edit?usp=sharing)

Direct any questions to the BOG thread.

Thanks,
@A_K, BOG


Thanks. Everything looks good. I haven't scrutinized it but it seems functional. Were you able to automate the import okay?
You can also avoid manual entry by pulling the names directly from the team sheets.
A_K liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 11:35
#66
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
Quoting: ricochetii
Thanks. Everything looks good. I haven't scrutinized it but it seems functional. Were you able to automate the import okay?
You can also avoid manual entry by pulling the names directly from the team sheets.


Yeah, I actually just dropped in stats from the first 2 days just to make sure it's functioning properly. It's very easy to drop the new data in. Just have to do another sweep to see if there are any spelling changes for the new season (the names with initials like J.T. Miller and PK Subban can be a mess after I replace periods with spaces haha).
ricochetii liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 11:40
#67
alwaysnextyear
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,845
Likes: 358
Quoting: A_K
Yeah, I actually just dropped in stats from the first 2 days just to make sure it's functioning properly. It's very easy to drop the new data in. Just have to do another sweep to see if there are any spelling changes for the new season (the names with initials like J.T. Miller and PK Subban can be a mess after I replace periods with spaces haha).


Huge thanks for putting the work in on this AK!!
A_K and MrBooth liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 12:30
#68
TrueNorth
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 453
Quoting: A_K
@ricochetii @rangersandislesfan @beanie2911 @Rodzikhockey93 @TonyStrecher @alwaysnextyear @Math @Bo53Horvat @MrBooth @Daryl @l9guysports @flamesfan419 @TabooPenguo @MacWinnon @NateElder12 @TMLSage @A_K @TrueNorth @wmjoncar @DontToewsMe19 @Mr_cap @mhockey91 @krakowitz @jmac490 @GronkNation @BoltsPoint21 @Ethereal @Icegirl @Turner33 @Dylan1995 @matt59

Attention GMs!

Scoring Update:

Thanks to all of you who submitted your roster for preseason rankings. After counting up how much time it took me to compile the rosters that GMs sent to me, I have decided that the simpler approach for everyone will be this:

1. GMs will keep their team pages up to date with the roster that they want to be scored, especially around the 20th day of each month. You will be scored with all roster slots, including healthy scratches, for the entire month based on your roster on the 20th.

Here's an example: if you trade Martin Erat for Filip Forsberg on the 15th of the October (and he appears on your team page), you will get credit for Forsberg's stats for the entire month of October when we publish at the end of the month. However, if you make the trade on the 29th of October, since it is past the 20th it will not be included in that month's scoring for your team and you will remain with Martin Erat's stats for October.

2. A BOG member (usually me but we all have access) will enter the rosters to the scoring sheet directly from the team pages. If we have any questions or issues with your roster, we will notify you to get clarity. Otherwise, GMs can check the scoring sheet to make sure their rosters have been entered to their liking, and notify the BOG of any concerns.

Note: Just for fun, I may decide to upload the stats from Corsica more frequently than monthly, but the official rankings will come at the end of each month. I will publish an archived version of the stats in this thread each month that will serve as power rankings, and there will be a live sheet that I keep updated in between.

Live Sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YpmoVUegSNXHvr66nD-XnvvFwENC9iyeRilhW_eva-M/edit?usp=sharing)

Preseason Rankings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LYHfK3K6ZozMg9nQwmNXoYIrQniGvkxu8YNIIm53nm0/edit?usp=sharing)

Direct any questions to the BOG thread.

Thanks,
@A_K, BOG


Excellent work AK. I would add to Forsberg to get Erat. He is that good.
A_K and krakowitz liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 3:02
#69
Blues GM v4
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,028
Likes: 2,407
Quoting: TrueNorth
Excellent work AK. I would add to Forsberg to get Erat. He is that good.


You had to bring it up. You just had to
A_K, Daryl, rangersandislesfan and 2 others liked this.
Oct 5, 2018 at 4:14
#70
@Pointerr21
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 7,432
Likes: 2,528
Quoting: krakowitz
You had to bring it up. You just had to


Just remember Nashville traded Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen...
Oct 5, 2018 at 6:44
#71
DontToewsMe19
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 155
Quoting: BoltsPoint21
Just remember Nashville traded Seth Jones for Ryan Johansen...


Not as bad. It was a need for NSH and Jo played great in Columbus.
Oct 22, 2018 at 4:36
#72
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
@ricochetii @rangersandislesfan @beanie2911 @Rodzikhockey93 @TonyStrecher @alwaysnextyear @Math @Bo53Horvat @MrBooth @Daryl @l9guysports @flamesfan419 @TabooPenguo @MacWinnon @NateElder12 @TMLSage @A_K @TrueNorth @brenfox31 @DontToewsMe19 @Mr_cap @mhockey91 @krakowitz @jmac490 @GronkNation @BoltsPoint21 @Pross @Icegirl @Turner33 @Dylan1995 @matt59 @Missouri

The BOG has finished inputting your rosters for October scoring. Official power rankings will be published during the first week of Novemeber.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MoSC0tM8ApqbUvgAF1oq2Z89xSLwlf8Z_f3Jf-6opYs/edit?usp=sharing

Please take a look at your team tab in the spreadsheet linked above. Over the next few days GMs can communicate to the BOG if they wish to tweak their roster. For example, you might want a player who is currently on IR to take his spot back for October scoring purposes. (If your move is to re-add an IR player, you do not have to show the move on your team page for it to count in scoring.) Or you may wish send down a player that was assigned to juniors, or bring up a recent call-up, etc.

Any changes must account for these rules:
- can't use anyone acquired after Oct 20th 2018
- can't replace a player currently on the roster that has to clear waivers to go down unless he is placed on waivers.
- can't replace a player that you no longer own
- can't exceed 14F, 8D, or 3G (this may not be an NHL rule but the scoring sheet is not built for any more). If you are carrying a roster that exceeds these counts, contact the BOG to sort out how we will score it.

If you notice anything strange about the scoring (stats not showing up, spelling errors, incorrect players on team, etc.), let a BOG member know.

We will do our best to keep up with any roster changes you wish to make until the close of the month, but as we near the last day, you may not be able to get your changes in before we move on, so please be proactive (and patient).

After the last day of the month, we will not accept roster changes. This process will repeat for November (around the 20th, we will grab your roster for the month).

PLEASE DON'T POST IN THIS THREAD. DIRECT QUESTIONS TO BOG ON TWITTER, EMAIL, OR TAG US IN A POST IN THE GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
matt59 liked this.
Nov 1, 2018 at 10:23
#73
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423


flamesfan419 and ricochetii liked this.
Nov 28, 2018 at 4:48
#74
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
I switched sheets (got scared that Corsica was dead) so if you're following along at home there is a new link in the first post of this thread. Or here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11kF_rV7vT8q2KNcwX3ClKLzQaQ_Mz9igZUNyAhbkT4w/edit?usp=sharing Also, I tweaked the inputs for scoring so November's graphics will look slightly different. Nothing major, but I combined the EV and PP scoring from 4 categories (F EV, F PP, D EV, D PP) to 2 (Fwd and Def). PP and EV pts are still worth the same values but they are combined and weighted into the final score. This seems minor, but it allows for a more fair representation of the scoring (so that teams aren't punished/rewarded for having an imbalance of PP and EV production). Again, PP pts are still worth 60% of the value of EV pts, but the categories have been combined and ranked instead of ranked separately. Let me know if there is any confusion, I feel like the tweak makes sense but is hard to explain.
Daryl, rangersandislesfan, DontToewsMe19 and 1 other person liked this.
Nov 29, 2018 at 10:59
#75
Thread Starter
Let'sGoBlues | WPGv4
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,264
Likes: 2,423
One more update:

The dSV% numbers were difficult to deal with since Corsica won't let me break down the stats month-by-month. Players with anomalous stats in one month were showing strange dSV% when I used the difference between current and previous months to calculate, so I have established a workaround. dSV% stats will be tracked using http://offsidereview.com/goalies/ data (pulled from NHL.com with the same scraper as Corsica). This site has the ability to choose date ranges for stats, so the dSV% can be simply extracted from site to sheet without any weird calculations. The only difference you will notice is that the dSV% tracked is actually based on Fenwick shots (unblocked shot attempts) so the numbers vary slightly from Corsica's dSV% numbers. Since this change is universal across the board, there are no biases in making this change.

Another thing I noticed is that dSV% for goalies with <100 ublocked shot attempts against were extremely wonky, so I wrote the code to take 1/3 of the dSV% value if USAT < 100.

If you have any questions, drop them in the discussion thread or hit me up on Twitter. Official November rankings coming soon!
alwaysnextyear, rangersandislesfan, matt59 and 2 others liked this.
 
Reply
To create a post please Login or Register
Question:
Options:
Add Option
Remove Option
Submit Poll