Pens and Habs win this trade, while SJ is the only loser. Sharks fans i just dont get it. The only member of the current organization that won this trade is the owners. They save a lot of their money while sharks fans get to suffer through another pointless season. SJ can keep rebuilding till the end of time and outside of the 2016 cup run where yall got SMOKED (by the Pens ironically no less), your organization would have accomplished nothing. So congrats sharks fans yall win top 5 picks for the next 5 years as you continue to beg and plead to be relevant again. Habs all i gotta say is good work, see you during the season.

The big cost for Pittsburgh is having karlsson at 10 million for years 3 and 4

Montreal, San Jose and then Pittsburgh- in order of who 'won'

If Petry can be a good top4 dman again- this is an even bigger win. The cost is reasonable, and they could use another veteran on defense. While I dont think the Habs solved any major issues with their roster- they lost nothing they wanted to keep and gained assets that should facilitate further moves to improve their future.

San Jose while not getting fair value for a top dman- his skills were wasted on that team, and they get to truly rebuild even earlier without that anchor of a contract. Hoffman and Rutta wont fetch much if they try to flip them at the TDL, but their cap issues end much sooner with this deal.

Pittsburgh replaces Petry with Karlsson- a great move on paper, but was another offensive dman what they really needed? I dont see this as a great fit (but should be entertaining to watch- if he stays healthy). A big swing for the fences, but I dont see the Pens as true contenders for the cup, and their window is closing fast. This delays the inevitable rebuild in Pitt.

I think the big losers are sharks fans who let silly analysts convince them that Karlsson was going to have a tonne of value despite his contract and age.

The win for San Jose is getting out of 87% karlsson's contract for 4 years. And instead of retaining like 5 mil they retained 1.5 mil and took back some bad contracts who can still play and likely be flipped for some value at tdls with retention. The win for them there is they get some cap room back next year (Hoffman) and more in years 3 and 4 (ruuta and Granlund). So they get the cap when they need it.

Dubas move was to dump bad contracts instead of getting heavier retention which kinda helps now and next year (when he got out of bad cap) and less in years 3 and 4 when he has Karlsson at 10 million and likely he has declined. ie he bought himself more flexibility when he wants to compete in the end of Crosby/Malkin/Letang era in exchange for more issues in the future. Sharks accepted they'll stink this and next year and got out of the majority of Karlsson in years 3 and 4

The more I think about this trade, the worse it looks for San Jose. They took on three bad contracts and their total cap hit went UP this year. They are holding onto $6 million in cap space over the next four years. And what did they get? ... A top ten protected 1st round pick. That's awful. You should be able to get that for taking on $6 million in cap hit.

I which since he was ONLY retained on once we can retain him at 50% and trading EK at 5 million as long as he doesnt implode will net a solid return and cluld net a better return than what SJ got on him.

Tough one here, on the surface, at this point in the time spectrum, each team did okay.
Even if Vlasic was moved (instead of Karlsson) Pitt would still fair well, but it would look better for SJ ;-)
Perhaps Pit makes out the best here in 1) getting their man and 2) shedding cap without selling the farm(team).
I just wonder if there will be enough ice time to split between Letang & Karlsson, as both of them thrive on ice-time...

The last time Karlsson was the equivalent of an 80+ point defenseman before last year was 2015/2016

He's cracked 80 points twice in his entire career: last year and 2015/2016. Now if you just say 70+ you can add 3 more seasons.

They got out of 87% or his contract in years 3 and 4. That was the big success from their perspective I suspect.

Saying that Sharks fans didn't understand the market for Karlsson isn't a good counterpoint.

All reports for the last year and a half have pointed to there being very little market for Erik Karlsson due to his injury history and NMC. His play this year gave San Jose an out, but it was a very limited one. There was a very limited market for him. Grier did a good job to maximize his leverage in that limited market.

I guarantee you that within a week once all the talking heads like Friedman spill what they know, we will find out that there were almost no teams willing to take Karlsson without heavy retention and almost no teams willing to give up 1st round picks.

There is a reasonable chance that whatever level of retention Grier was willing to do may have been dictated by ownership. There is also no guarantee that increasing the retention would have increased the market for Karlsson by an amount that would justify retaining half. I would guess that it wouldn't do a lot to move the market. Pittsburgh got Karlsson at 10M, and San Jose also had to facilitate Pittsburgh dumping roughly 11 million in cap over the next 2 years. That's a lot of cap consideration going to Pittsburgh, which says that short term cap wasn't the only issue with Karlsson. Even at half retained, he's still a near 6M player for the next 4 years. Teams were clearly unwilling to take on the risk of his term given his level of play prior to this season. There was nothing San Jose could do about the term.

They are the perfect trade spot because with how old their core is, this is hardly going to be a worry.

If Karlsson can continue to play like a top pairing defenseman for the next 2 seasons, Pittsburgh could possibly flip Karlsson with retention when he is down to 1-2 years remaining. If he proves himself that way, it will help alleviate any concerns about his long term play, and obviously 1-2 years is a lot less term than 4 years. I can already see the thread, where Pittsburgh gets a late 1st++ for Karlsson, and people dunk on San Jose for Pittsburgh getting more for him, while completely ignoring the context of why San Jose got what they did.

His points per games are 10th among defenseman last 4 seasons. By that metric he is good

That is theoretically possible even probable on NHL 2024 by ea. In the real world he has a full NMC and seems much less likely but I do see it.

I don't Grier did badly.

Mostly propped by his big season.

Kent Hughes take a bow👏👏👏

It is cap in/cap out because they took on 3 roster players and only moved one out. You have to credit them for between 775k-1.15M for each of Hoffman and Rutta because they will take up roster spots and cause incidental transactions where players will be sent down and San Jose will be credited with cap space. Alternatively, if either of the two players are assigned to the AHL they also get that cap space.

Then they gain a small amount of cap space next year (assuming no buyouts).

It's really years 3 and 4 where they benefit cap wise. They gain 9M+ each season (10M out, minus the roughly 1M cost to fill a roster spot).

This is obviously not on Dubas, but rather on Hextall, but all the same: the two Petry trades are, taken together, a massive loss for Pittsburgh. Montreal got assets for Petry (+ a guy that Pittsburgh opted not to re-sign), then got paid to take him back with partial salary retention so that they can (probably) trade him again for more assets.

Indeed but the gap between the 80 point season and last year is injury riddled Erik Karlsson. This past season was his first fully healthy season since his last ppg season. He’s also joining the best team of his career. Ottawa was nowhere near playoffs without him and whilst his first year San José team was good, I do think this team is slightly better

No doubt. But that one season was last season. Tough to say he’s a bad or average player after winning a Norris There is no question about the players going out.

Wow SJ loss depending on what they do with the cap space, but they're going to be rebuilding
PIT AND MTL win

Best part of this trade is Hoffman and Karlsson being involved in the same trade with their prior drama

You're right but I still wish SJ retained more to max return on picks

Fair deal, everyone got what they wanted.

I just can't make sense of this trade for the Pens or the Sharks. Beautiful job by Hughes though. I understand that Rutta, Hoffman and, in an optimistic view Granlund too, are day trading assets they can turn into picks later on, but that's relying on them staying healthy and producing for them to attract buyers. Seems like a very weak return. On the Pens side, this is of course beautiful job by Dubas paying basically nothing to acquire a superstar, but with the team's age structure it is basically Stanley Cup next season or bust. Again, beautifully handled by Montreal for their part.

Also no more Hoffman to Chicago trades

I'd honestly say the canadiens win this trade.