If that's the case ownership just screwed their own GM. That's worse optics than paying Karlsson to play elsewhere (which they're doing anyhow).

I meant sudden impact in jersey sales... and nobody would pay an A tier prospect for Karlson

With 50% retained? Sure they would.

I still didn't received my answer hahaha

Again I'm guessing. But I don't think it's optics. It's stomaching it. But who knows.

I think San Jose should have burned itself to the ground 3ish years ago when it was clear the core was done. They could have gotten plenty for couture and burns. Traded not resigned hertl. They shouldn't have bought out Jones because they didn't need the cap. They should have just let him play/waived him. He sucked but who cares. Had they done that they would have been coming out of it about now.

Also Grier has been really ****ty in general.

This trade is good for both Montreal and Pittsburg. San Jose, meh they got what the market allowed. More importantly it suck’s for the Buffalo Sabres as MTL/PIT look better. Can all the teams in our conference just settle down in the offseason, we’re trying to make the playoffs after 12 years. LOL 😂

Even if we trade Petry for FC, it's a win.

SJ fan so I'm hella biased, but I'm happy with this trade. Minimal retention, a first round protected pick, and 3 contracts that expire in 2 years, right when other stinkers like Vlasic + the Martin Jones buyout are off the books.

Yeah we'll suck for a while, but all bad contracts run out at about the same time. Sounds good to me.

Sometimes players with partial no-trade clause gambles, on some team they think will not trade for them in order to block more teams.

Or
1- Montreal told him he would be traded right away

2- He is down to play in Mtl (I'm skeptical, he had a better chance of winning hockey games in Pittsburgh)

Why are people defending this trade from San Jose's perspective? You don't work for San Jose.

There is nothing you can say to defend this for San Jose, their fans are not happy with this trade.

Montreal won this trade, and I actually think they could of got more. But, they did fine. They needed to lose a couple forwards.

I think they tried that and nobody was willing to pay that much unless undesirable money went the other way

So they took on MORE money for LESS return? That's crazy.

I meant they would have retained more for an extra 2nd but same package

Steve Dangle compared this trade to a dam finally bursting. I'd say its more like the GMs finally unclogged the turd from the toilet. This deal was all about moving around bad contracts in ways that made sense for each team, but the contracts remain bad.

On a slightly less stinky note, I remember when SJ signed Karlsson to his contract, I felt like that would end terribly for them. This isn't the return they would have wanted today, but the end of the contract in SJ will actually be a Norris season.

At least we got banners in the rafters bud. And that is worth the price to do an actual rebuild. See thats where you eventually get better. Since SJ fans dont know what thats like. And just cause you picked them high doesnt mean they will pan out. We will see what you are saying in 2-3 years when you send Meier off for scraps too 😂😂😂😂

We did get something from SJ. They took Hoffman for free.
We needed to move a forward and the market wasn't there to drop Hoffman without giving something up. Nobody else was taking him for free and we didn't need to use a retention slot to move him.

There's a stat called On-Ice Goal Differential Above Expected, which is like +/-, but it also takes into account quality of teammates, quality of opponents, PP and PK time, etc.

He's be in the negatives in this stat ever year since he signed this contract.

Very nicely thought out post.
I think you are bang on about retaining and what the return could have been if SJS really did do the full retention.

Some people look quite silly right now because of this trade.

If it weren't the Pens I would say that Dubas had screwed them pretty badly

Finally

I think this trade is good for all three teams considering what their goals were and where they are in their life cycles.

Pittsburgh

Positive: They got the guy they wanted, and cleared the cap space for him – actually coming out with less cap hit now than they went in with – all in one deal without having to give up any prospects (I’m ignoring Légaré and Hamaliuk because I don’t think they have much chance to make the NHL) or players that they considered essential to their present or future success. The only positive assets it cost them were a protected 1st, a 2nd and $1.5M of retained salary on Petry. You could argue that the cap dumps alone were worth at least that much, so they effectively got the most recent Norris Trophy winner for free.

Negative: If Karlsson was a UFA, would you sign him for 4x$10M? I wouldn’t, but I can see why it makes sense for Pittsburgh. They missed the playoffs last year, so they needed to do something to get back in, but they’re committed to being all in on their aging core. Acquiring Karlsson effectively doubles down on that strategy by bringing in another aging star.

Rating: A-

San Jose

Positive: It’s no secret they’ve been wanting to get rid of Karlsson’s contract, and even with him coming off a career year, it still looks like a bad contract at 4x$11M. They got rid of 87% of it, which is quite an accomplishment considering how difficult it is to move a contract of that size, and they picked up a 1st-round draft pick from what could be a non-playoff team in the process. They had to take on some overpaid players, but those players should all be of some use to them, and none of them are signed for more than two years versus Karlsson’s four.

Negative: They gave up their best player and have to wait two years before they’ll see significant savings from this move. The big benefits are in years 3 and 4. Sharks fans who thought he would fetch a huge package of futures that would kick-start their rebuild need to realize that Pittsburgh was probably the only team he was willing to go to that could take him, and it was only because of his great season last year that they were able to move him at all, so although they picked the right time to sell they were probably lucky to get what they got. However, they likely could have got more if they retained more of his salary. I think that might have been better for their rebuild, because I’ll be surprised if by years 3 and 4 they’ll be in a position where they really need all of that 2x$10M cap space they just freed up.

Rating: B

Montreal

A much less impactful trade for Montreal. I suspect Petry’s no-trade clause prevented Pittsburgh from sending him to San Jose, otherwise it would have been a two-team trade with San Jose getting the package they sent to Montreal.

Positive: Turning Hoffman and Pitlick into Petry and DeSmith for only a small increase in cap hit should make them a better team this season. I’m not sure DeSmith is much of an upgrade over Montembault, but he’ll create some competition for that spot or maybe allow them to trade Allen. Petry gives them another veteran defenseman who might be able to help their young core develop without the pressure of more responsibility than they’re ready for.

Negative: They’ve turned one year of Hoffman’s bad contract into two years of Petry’s. The retention on Petry should make that more palatable, and they get a 2nd-round draft pick to offset the pain, but I’m not sure they aren’t already past the point in their rebuild where selling cap space for draft picks is a good move.

Rating: B

The part of this trade that for some reason makes me giggle is...

1) Despite Dubas trading away most of Hextall's mistakes for EK
2) Despite being able to hold on to the few quality prospects we have
3) Despite not having to move POJ or Smith
4) Despite only having to really give up a 1st & 2nd

He still managed to have Grier pony up a 3rd round pick lol. Something about that makes me giggle. It's like Dubas said, I'm going to fleece you and let you know that I own you just a little bit.

Now sign Dylan Ferguson

So you're saying that Karlsson with 50% retained - $5.75M AAV - would have required $12M worth of cap dumps to move while receiving nothing more than an additional 2nd? I don't believe that for 1 second.

As long as each two way trade completes it's fine. So presumably the Habs traded pittsburgh Hoffman and Pitlick for the retained Petry, desmith, the second, and the prospect.

The Pittsburgh traded Hoffman, Granlund, ruuta and the first for Karlsson retained, the third and a prospect