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Mitch Marner vs Prime Phil Kessel

Created by: AnalyticsGeek
Team: 2019-20 Custom Team
Initial Creation Date: Jun. 25, 2020
Published: Jun. 25, 2020
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Description
Today, I want to do a comparison of two players who have played for Toronto before, and both earned the reputation as being lazy, soft, selfish and a locker room cancer. Both players have been questioned by fans and media for their attitude and commitment to the team, but nonetheless, they are both elite talents.

Phil Kessel is an elite goal scorer with excellent speed. He has scored 371 goals and 861 points in 1066 regular season games (PPG of .807). In the playoffs, he has 33 goals and 77 points in 87 games (PPG of 0.885).

Mitch Marner is a playmaker with good stick-handling and agility. He has 83 goals and 291 points in 300 regular season games (0.97 PPG). In the playoffs, he has 5 goals and 17 points in 20 games (PPG of 0.85)

As for defensive game, Phil Kessel averages 1.1 defensive point shares per season. His best season, he has an expected goals against that ranks in the 50th percentile. Mitch Marner averages 1.5 defensive point shares per season. His best season in expected goals against ranks in the 72nd percentile.

Personally, my vote goes to Kessel, he was able to notch several point per game seasons playing on a poor Toronto team. It's close, however.
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Left WingCentreRight Wing
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Guentzel, Jake
$4,500,000$4,500,000
LW, RW
UFA - 5
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Crosby, Sidney
$8,700,000$8,700,000
C
NMC
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Kessel, Phil
$8,000,000$8,000,000
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Zucker, Jason
$5,500,000$5,500,000
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Malkin, Evgeni
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Rust, Bryan
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Hyman, Zach
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Tavares, John
$11,000,000$11,000,000
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NMC
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Marner, Mitchell
$10,893,000$10,893,000
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Nylander, William
$6,962,366$6,962,366
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Matthews, Auston
$11,634,000$11,634,000
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Kapanen, Kasperi
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Dumoulin, Brian
$4,100,000$4,100,000
LD
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Letang, Kris
$7,250,000$7,250,000
RD
M-NTC, NMC
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Andersen, Frederik
$5,000,000$5,000,000
G
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Muzzin, Jake
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Murray, Matt
$3,750,000$3,750,000
G
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Pettersson, Marcus
$874,125$874,125
LD
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Rielly, Morgan
$5,000,000$5,000,000
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Marino, John
$925,000$925,000 (Performance Bonus$850,000$850K)
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 6:44 p.m.
#26
draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I'm going to say Marner but I want to point out something. Kessel struggled a bit when he had to carry his line in Toronto, he succeeded in Pittsburgh though as the 2nd best player on his line, now that he is the "best player on the line" in Arizona he is struggling again. Marner has never really had to carry his own line


Marner never had to carry his line >?

His first 2 seasons he played with mostly with Kadri as his center (sometimes Bozak when Babcock was unhappy), if you notice Kadri only two 30+ goal seasons of his career came when Mitch was feeding him the puck. Marner was well on his way to being a 80+ point guy even with the 50 point guy Kadri as his center. Adding Mitch to J.T. or Matthews did not inflate his numbers to being unrealistic.

Kessel, who played mostly with Bozak (sometimes Kadri) maxed out as a 70 point guy for the Leafs. Now whether Kessel's age has caught up to him or his time with the 'yotes gives us a perfect example of his true talent/value. Right now a straight up Kapanen for Kessel trade would be unfair to the team getting Phat Phil.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 6:49 p.m.
#27
AnalyticsGeek
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I'm going to say Marner but I want to point out something. Kessel struggled a bit when he had to carry his line in Toronto, he succeeded in Pittsburgh though as the 2nd best player on his line, now that he is the "best player on the line" in Arizona he is struggling again. Marner has never really had to carry his own line




Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Marner never had to carry his line >?

His first 2 seasons he played with mostly with Kadri as his center (sometimes Bozak when Babcock was unhappy), if you notice Kadri only two 30+ goal seasons of his career came when Mitch was feeding him the puck. Marner was well on his way to being a 80+ point guy even with the 50 point guy Kadri as his center. Adding Mitch to J.T. or Matthews did not inflate his numbers to being unrealistic.

Kessel, who played mostly with Bozak (sometimes Kadri) maxed out as a 70 point guy for the Leafs. Now whether Kessel's age has caught up to him or his time with the 'yotes gives us a perfect example of his true talent/value. Right now a straight up Kapanen for Kessel trade would be unfair to the team getting Phat Phil.


Marner played on a line with Kadri & Marleau in 2017/18, scored 36 points in 33 games. 90 point pace. IDK if that counts as carrying a line but he was the productive player there.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 6:50 p.m.
#28
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Marner never had to carry his line >?

His first 2 seasons he played with mostly with Kadri as his center (sometimes Bozak when Babcock was unhappy), if you notice Kadri only two 30+ goal seasons of his career came when Mitch was feeding him the puck. Marner was well on his way to being a 80+ point guy even with the 50 point guy Kadri as his center. Adding Mitch to J.T. or Matthews did not inflate his numbers to being unrealistic.

Kessel, who played mostly with Bozak (sometimes Kadri) maxed out as a 70 point guy for the Leafs.


Rookie and sophomore season's don't exactly count towards carrying a line when you are still learning the ways of the game. If anything he learned how to be a 2-way player from those years. I never said Marner's current numbers are unrealistic either but JT and AM definitely inflate them a bit. Was he the best offensive player on that line? Yes, would I justify that as carrying the line? No.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:03 p.m.
#29
CrazyFlamesFan
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Wait Marner has been called locker room cancer? I thought he was well liked?
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:10 p.m.
#30
MitchMarner_16
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Quoting: PrimeDatsyuk
Marner has never been given the reputation of a locker room cancer, if anything i've only heard the opposite. I don't understand why all you do is hate on marner, like every ACGM you make you undervalue him massively. oh well


X1000
Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:16 p.m.
#31
Capitalfail67
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I’d say Marner but Kessel is 100x more cool. Actually Kessel. Kessel body type and all the things that come with that I’m far more impressed he plays hockey than marner. Kessel is my final answer.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:25 p.m.
#32
Skyraider112
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For the price of the contract definitely Phil, for personality: Phil, for winning resume: Phil.

Just because Marner gets close to 100 points playing with elite centers doesn't make him nearly as good as Phil in his prime. Phil has won 2 cups and was a ppg on an atrocious Leafs team back in the day
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:30 p.m.
#33
HattrickKane88
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite


How is this even a question? Kessel is the much better player, it’s not even close. He’s carried his teams to Stanley Cups & was a consistent 30 goal scorer for over a decade. I’d take that every time. It’s comical how you people vastly overrated Marner. He is not special at all. The only thing he does is earn assists. No one cares about assists. It’s the most worthless & easiest stat to earn. When you watch him play, it’s clear he doesn’t have the ability to play in the NHL. He’s too physically weak yet doesn’t have the talent to make up for it. He just throws the puck into a random area for Matthews to get him results. I don’t know how anyone can argue against that. If he wasn’t being carried by Matthews, he’s be in the AHL.
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:33 p.m.
#34
KeepUps15
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Don't respond to this HattrickKane guy. This is 100% just for attention. Don't give it to him
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:35 p.m.
#35
HattrickKane88
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Quoting: justaBoss
Marner, pretty easily in my opinion.

Kessel needs good linemates to shine. It's no wonder his best years were with Malkin. Marner however makes players around him better.


The stupidity of this takes makes me wonder if you’re trolling or just plain stupid. “Kessel needs good linemates to shine?” Are you high? In Toronto he was playing on a line with 2 garbage players in Bozak & Lupul every season yet he was consistently scoring 35 goals & a point per game. Also, when he was in Pittsburgh, it was him carrying Malkin, not the other way around. All Malkin did was float around & take lazy penalties.

“Marner makes other players around him better.”

Are you drunk? The only reason Marner is in the NHL is because he’s getting carried by Matthews.
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:40 p.m.
#36
HattrickKane88
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Quoting: exo2769
I'm still waiting to see if Kessel knows how to play defense and I'm not going to hold my breath. Kessel has a grand total of 59:15 in PK time......for his entire career. Marner just spent 130:58 last year and 110:52 the year before that. Kessel was set up SOOO perfectly in that PIT system that he was never even asked to play defense. It wasn't and isn't even part of his vocabulary.


Such a stupid take. No one cares about defence. A forward’s job is to score goals & no one does it better than Phil Kessel. Until Marner can drop 40 in the back of the net, this isn’t even a question.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:43 p.m.
#37
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Quoting: keep_ups12
Don't respond to this HattrickKane guy. This is 100% just for attention. Don't give it to him


"damnit he's back again"
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:43 p.m.
#38
HattrickKane88
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Quoting: Skyraider112
For the price of the contract definitely Phil, for personality: Phil, for winning resume: Phil.

Just because Marner gets close to 100 points playing with elite centers doesn't make him nearly as good as Phil in his prime. Phil has won 2 cups and was a ppg on an atrocious Leafs team back in the day


Quoting: Capitalfail67
I’d say Marner but Kessel is 100x more cool. Actually Kessel. Kessel body type and all the things that come with that I’m far more impressed he plays hockey than marner. Kessel is my final answer.


This. Marner is absolute garbage. The only reason the guy has an NHL career is because he’s playing with a franchise center in Matthews & now everyone is thinking he’s the next Patrick Kane. Canadians are the best at overrating their players.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:44 p.m.
#39
SlickWilly
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Realistically, Marner hasnt hit his "prime" yet. Generally, a players prime is when they hit 26 or 27. Maybe we are seeing a shift in a younger prime age for the NHL, but I think Marner still has room to grow and I think the comparison is kinda moot for now
Jun. 25, 2020 at 7:53 p.m.
#40
exo2769
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Quoting: HattrickKane88
Such a stupid take. No one cares about defence. A forward’s job is to score goals & no one does it better than Phil Kessel. Until Marner can drop 40 in the back of the net, this isn’t even a question.


Who has the career high in points in a season between these two??? Yeah its Marner... I'm just emphasizing that one of these players is a 1 way player...the other one is marner who also has 94 points in a season.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 8:23 p.m.
#41
Richard88
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Please stop replying to the post with all the "@" tags. And please remove me from that list.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 8:25 p.m.
#42
Jexus
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Its pretty close. Prime Kessel took a lot of s*it from analysts and media but he was a gamer in the second season. I don't watch much eastern conference hockey so I have not seen a lot of MM but his stats are strong. I like both but slight edge to prime kessel for his dorky photos and aloof personality.
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 8:26 p.m.
#43
AnalyticsGeek
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Quoting: HattrickKane88
How is this even a question? Kessel is the much better player, it’s not even close. He’s carried his teams to Stanley Cups & was a consistent 30 goal scorer for over a decade. I’d take that every time. It’s comical how you people vastly overrated Marner. He is not special at all. The only thing he does is earn assists. No one cares about assists. It’s the most worthless & easiest stat to earn. When you watch him play, it’s clear he doesn’t have the ability to play in the NHL. He’s too physically weak yet doesn’t have the talent to make up for it. He just throws the puck into a random area for Matthews to get him results. I don’t know how anyone can argue against that. If he wasn’t being carried by Matthews, he’s be in the AHL.


Yikes, I can’t agree with that. Marner is actually quite talented. He’s very elusive when he has the puck & is great at evading defenders & creating space. The problem is, he’s quite lazy & doesn’t always make great decisions. He tries to dangle too much sometimes turns it over. Generally, he’s doesn’t seem to skate very hard & never retrieves pucks in the dirty areas. But he is definitely a high profile talent.
Jun. 25, 2020 at 8:27 p.m.
#44
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Quoting: Capitalfail67
I’d say Marner but Kessel is 100x more cool. Actually Kessel. Kessel body type and all the things that come with that I’m far more impressed he plays hockey than marner. Kessel is my final answer.


Who’d you say is the better player between TJ Oshie (prime) and Mitch Marner?
Jun. 25, 2020 at 8:28 p.m.
#45
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Quoting: Skyraider112
For the price of the contract definitely Phil, for personality: Phil, for winning resume: Phil.

Just because Marner gets close to 100 points playing with elite centers doesn't make him nearly as good as Phil in his prime. Phil has won 2 cups and was a ppg on an atrocious Leafs team back in the day


Yes I agree I think talent wise they are at a similar level but Marner still has miles to go before he reaches Phil’s level. Who’d you say is better between Mitch Marner & Sam Reinhart?
Jun. 25, 2020 at 9:19 p.m.
#46
Capitalfail67
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Quoting: HattrickKane88
This. Marner is absolute garbage. The only reason the guy has an NHL career is because he’s playing with a franchise center in Matthews & now everyone is thinking he’s the next Patrick Kane. Canadians are the best at overrating their players.


So you are going to diminish Marner for playing with his teammate and you feel that if he played with a lesser center like maybe Tavares his numbers would decline? That’s a stretch. Kane is great and maybe Marner could be comparable. I personally don’t think it’s possible but to discredit him for playing w Matthews is silly. Should he request to play w kerfoot to get rid of this narrative ?
Jun. 25, 2020 at 9:20 p.m.
#47
Capitalfail67
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Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Who’d you say is the better player between TJ Oshie (prime) and Mitch Marner?


Marner. Oshie was never really elite. Just a really hard working skill guy. Marner doesn’t get traded for Brouwer
Jun. 25, 2020 at 9:26 p.m.
#48
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Quoting: Jexus
Its pretty close. Prime Kessel took a lot of s*it from analysts and media but he was a gamer in the second season. I don't watch much eastern conference hockey so I have not seen a lot of MM but his stats are strong. I like both but slight edge to prime kessel for his dorky photos and aloof personality.


Excellent analysis !
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Jun. 25, 2020 at 10:06 p.m.
#49
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Hard argue against Kessel’s body of work. Two cups, all star caliber player, loads of goals, and one of the best wrist shots around. Plus, I mean, look the goal totals with the leafs (the BAD leafs). Pure class. I would have to say him right now. However.......

Marner clearly isn’t in his prime yet and he’s already topping 90 points and one of the best pure playmakers in the league. No, i don’t believe he is reliant on Matthews (seriously, hattrick Kane kills me 😂). He’s great with almost anyone on that team and will continue to get better.

Verdict: gotta go with Kessel for now. Track record, stats, and marner not in his prime yet all contribute to that. However, give it 3-4 more years and we may be having a different conversation.
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Jun. 26, 2020 at 12:19 a.m.
#50
Bcarlo25
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@MitchMarnerElite can you not tag me in this stuff anymore please. I get 16 notifications from people quoting it, and i didn’t even care in the first place.
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